Undertaking now the norm...
Discussion
I know this is probably a topic that has been done to death many times over.
However, maybe it's creeping middle age but I am seeing more and more poor lane discipline. No doubt some of this is due to our increasingly congested roads. Perhaps some can be attributed to the vast amounts of HGVs (often seen so slowwwly overtaking each other).
Whatever the reason, it appears that middle road/fast lane hoggers lead to more undertaking.
Have we reached a stage now where undertaking is becoming the norm? It certainly seems to be on the M25.
BTW I wouldn't atrribue this solely to any particular marque/type of driver.
However, maybe it's creeping middle age but I am seeing more and more poor lane discipline. No doubt some of this is due to our increasingly congested roads. Perhaps some can be attributed to the vast amounts of HGVs (often seen so slowwwly overtaking each other).
Whatever the reason, it appears that middle road/fast lane hoggers lead to more undertaking.
Have we reached a stage now where undertaking is becoming the norm? It certainly seems to be on the M25.
BTW I wouldn't atrribue this solely to any particular marque/type of driver.
ive got to admit, ive been guilty of undertaking when getting seriously sick of outside lane hoggers.
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
ive got to admit, ive been guilty of undertaking when getting seriously sick of outside lane hoggers.
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
abarthchris said:
ive got to admit, ive been guilty of undertaking when getting seriously sick of outside lane hoggers.
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
Recently on the a55 to conwy, i passed about 15 cars, all sat in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane. I had followed for a couple of miles but then got so brassed off i undertook.
I await flaming with anticipation!
Delayed echoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3 lane motorway, outside lane packed inside 2 lanes free for at least half a mile, maybe more, take the inside lane and put your blinkers on and don't look right, if you are staying at the same speed your just creating the traffic flow. As you know if traffic flow is moving faster in an inside lane it's legal and you can continue
Had the very same issue this morning.
Driving to work..Road is fairly quiet (as i was late..oops) but the outside lane was travelling at 10mph below the speed limit.
After a few cars have turned off etc i eventually find a small car a couple of cars ahead sitting in the outside lane not passing any traffic and at times the inside lane is undertaking it..
Car infront of me undertakes... I think to myself that i'll do the honourable thing and not undertake.. I sit a reasnable distance behind the car showing my intention to overtake but without sitting up the car's ar@e.. It just sits there.. Eventually i give a little flash of the lights.. Still sits there.. Then i eventually give a few good flashes.. still nothing..
In the end... well the inevitable happens.. (all i'll say is the outcome was that the car in the outside lane did not move back into the inside lane)
I do think some people are either oblivious to the rules of the road or so flippin arogant that they feel they can sit in any lane they like..
Unfortunately all this does is cause peoples patience to be pushed which in itself can cause some seriously dangerous situations..
Driving to work..Road is fairly quiet (as i was late..oops) but the outside lane was travelling at 10mph below the speed limit.
After a few cars have turned off etc i eventually find a small car a couple of cars ahead sitting in the outside lane not passing any traffic and at times the inside lane is undertaking it..
Car infront of me undertakes... I think to myself that i'll do the honourable thing and not undertake.. I sit a reasnable distance behind the car showing my intention to overtake but without sitting up the car's ar@e.. It just sits there.. Eventually i give a little flash of the lights.. Still sits there.. Then i eventually give a few good flashes.. still nothing..
In the end... well the inevitable happens.. (all i'll say is the outcome was that the car in the outside lane did not move back into the inside lane)
I do think some people are either oblivious to the rules of the road or so flippin arogant that they feel they can sit in any lane they like..
Unfortunately all this does is cause peoples patience to be pushed which in itself can cause some seriously dangerous situations..
i often pass on the inside but have never done any undertaking, though i once walked up a large hill with snow on top and at the time it was a considerable undertaking.
as long as i signal all my intentions i see no issues with doing it, most often if i do pass on the inside i will be in lane one and the other drivers out in lane 3.
as long as i signal all my intentions i see no issues with doing it, most often if i do pass on the inside i will be in lane one and the other drivers out in lane 3.
2 weeks ago I was driving down the M40 in the middle of the night/early morning.
The only traffic about was a few HGV's. I was cruising in lane 1, hopping into lane 2 when necessary. I saw a Vauxhall in lane 3 doing 70-75. As I was in lane 2 I did the right thing and moved into lane 3, keeping behind the Vauxhall at a reasonable and polite distance. He moved over (without signalling) and let me pass. I then move back into lane 2. When he switches on his full beam. Annoyed at being overtaken, woken out of his slumbers?
My concern is if some people don't like being overtaken, how would they react to being undertaken??
The only traffic about was a few HGV's. I was cruising in lane 1, hopping into lane 2 when necessary. I saw a Vauxhall in lane 3 doing 70-75. As I was in lane 2 I did the right thing and moved into lane 3, keeping behind the Vauxhall at a reasonable and polite distance. He moved over (without signalling) and let me pass. I then move back into lane 2. When he switches on his full beam. Annoyed at being overtaken, woken out of his slumbers?
My concern is if some people don't like being overtaken, how would they react to being undertaken??
code monkey said:
i often pass on the inside but have never done any undertaking
But seriously. If your lane is moving more quickly than a lane to your right you pass them on the left. Its fine. Its not even illegal. What is illegal is passing on the left and pulling back out to the right in an overtaking manouevre. Vonhosen describes this best (and most accurately). I think I have the principle of it right. Whilst this sounds like it could be confused in practice I think what is sensible and legal and what is not is quite easy to spot.
So it means that the weavers in and out storming up on the left and forcing their way into a tiny gap on the right are doing something illegal - and those that cruise past the middle lane hogger in the left hand lane at a steady speed aren't. All this is IIRC.
Personally - legal or not - I am prepared to pass inconsiderate drivers on the left. But only if it is CLEARLY safe to do so and there is an "escape route" at all times if they swerve back to the left.
On the M25 its something like six lanes wide in places and they even tell you not to change lane. Passing on either side is the norm there - and this is OK I believe if your queue is moving more quickly.
Don said:
code monkey said:
i often pass on the inside but have never done any undertaking
But seriously. If your lane is moving more quickly than a lane to your right you pass them on the left. Its fine. Its not even illegal. What is illegal is passing on the left and pulling back out to the right in an overtaking manouevre. Vonhosen describes this best (and most accurately). I think I have the principle of it right. Whilst this sounds like it could be confused in practice I think what is sensible and legal and what is not is quite easy to spot.
So it means that the weavers in and out storming up on the left and forcing their way into a tiny gap on the right are doing something illegal - and those that cruise past the middle lane hogger in the left hand lane at a steady speed aren't. All this is IIRC.
Personally - legal or not - I am prepared to pass inconsiderate drivers on the left. But only if it is CLEARLY safe to do so and there is an "escape route" at all times if they swerve back to the left.
On the M25 its something like six lanes wide in places and they even tell you not to change lane. Passing on either side is the norm there - and this is OK I believe if your queue is moving more quickly.
with this though how long do you have to have been in lane 1 to pass people in lane 3?
if i am in a queu in lane 3 and i move to lane one, how long do i have to wait before i hoof it and pass them all before moving to lane 3 again..?
i certainly dont dispute about when a nearside lane is moving faster than the outside lane..
It is more than a little annoying that, particularly here in the uk, people decide to bumble along in the outside lane with a queue of people behind them when the nearside lane is free.
Even on 3 or 4 lane stretches i've seen it.. It certainly adds to congestion.. I do believe if our Traf Pol were more prominent and pulled over people who did it then people would do it less..
Now shall we get onto Mini-Roundabout rules now?? (ooo lets not get me started )
It is more than a little annoying that, particularly here in the uk, people decide to bumble along in the outside lane with a queue of people behind them when the nearside lane is free.
Even on 3 or 4 lane stretches i've seen it.. It certainly adds to congestion.. I do believe if our Traf Pol were more prominent and pulled over people who did it then people would do it less..
Now shall we get onto Mini-Roundabout rules now?? (ooo lets not get me started
)Yes Don, I agree with that.
The Highway Code's pretty clear there, too.
The difficulty comes when someone, driving a shed, sees a way to make easy money.
You undertake him and he deliberately swerves left, smashing into you.
It goes to County Court, or maybe just his insurers fight it out...
I had completed my manoeuvre and was returning to my normal, lefthand position. The first rule of the road is "keep left in normal driving". As I'd almost completed my manoeuvre, I was hit by a car illegally undertaking me....
Very messy, and most District Judges would award against you.
The Highway Code's pretty clear there, too.
The difficulty comes when someone, driving a shed, sees a way to make easy money.
You undertake him and he deliberately swerves left, smashing into you.
It goes to County Court, or maybe just his insurers fight it out...
I had completed my manoeuvre and was returning to my normal, lefthand position. The first rule of the road is "keep left in normal driving". As I'd almost completed my manoeuvre, I was hit by a car illegally undertaking me....
Very messy, and most District Judges would award against you.
baSkey said:
Don said:
code monkey said:
stuff
But serious stuff with this though how long do you have to have been in lane 1 to pass people in lane 3?
if i am in a queu in lane 3 and i move to lane one, how long do i have to wait before i hoof it and pass them all before moving to lane 3 again..?
in my opinion it is the pulling up behind people while i am in lane 3 then realising lane 1 is clear hopping across and booting it that would be considered illegal.
if you catch up with a group in lane 3 while your already in lane 1 or in lane 2 passing a lane 1 sleeper then would be fine. would consider your average speed prior to catching the sleepers in lane 3 as the guidance of if your weaving in and out traffic all imho of course but if it feels wrong to me when i do it, then i would expect to get nicked if i got caught for it.
I went from Daventry to Peterborough on Saturday and saw some of the worst examples of lane discipline you could imagine.
I came out of a roundabout on the A43 around Wellingborough and moved up behind a Ford Focus, in lane 2, to show that I would like to come through. Nothing in lane 1 for half a mile. This cheeky
has the nerve to wave at me, as if to say yes I know your there but I'm not pulling over, so I went by on the inside.
A copule of miles later, I'm on a ~1 mile long sretch of the A43 between 2 roundabouts and there is 2 cars on it, me and a 306... 306 is in lane 2 doing 40mph...
I gave him the oppourtunity to do the decent thing. Moved from lane 1 to lane 2, did he move over, did he , so I moved back to lane 1 and carried on. He's then making gestures at me!
And don't even get me started about the dozy cow I came across during an overtake on the A605 near Oundle...
I came out of a roundabout on the A43 around Wellingborough and moved up behind a Ford Focus, in lane 2, to show that I would like to come through. Nothing in lane 1 for half a mile. This cheeky
has the nerve to wave at me, as if to say yes I know your there but I'm not pulling over, so I went by on the inside. A copule of miles later, I'm on a ~1 mile long sretch of the A43 between 2 roundabouts and there is 2 cars on it, me and a 306... 306 is in lane 2 doing 40mph...
I gave him the oppourtunity to do the decent thing. Moved from lane 1 to lane 2, did he move over, did he , so I moved back to lane 1 and carried on. He's then making gestures at me! And don't even get me started about the dozy cow I came across during an overtake on the A605 near Oundle...
Edited by Martin Keene on Tuesday 21st November 17:33
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