Stainless braided brake hoses?

[filmidget]

Technical-ish query:

Just sorting some minor mods to my Scirocco, had given a shopping list for mechanic F-in-L to order from their factors. No probs until asks for stainless braided brake hoses (goodridge type)- the parts man replies that they have none in stock either “because” or “and” (I am not sure which exactly he said) “they are crap”.

This seems a little odd, ‘cos seen them recommended all over the place. I have them on my Midget and they seemed good. Are they a case of ‘the Emporer’s New Clothes’, or a wit of a supplier?

Would be interested in PHer opinions...

Cheers, Phil

[incorrigible]

My local brake supplier makes them up on site, and I've never had any problems with them I was always of the opinion that they could take more pressure without and had less distortion the the steel lined rubber ones

[GregE240]

Phil, I had them on an older car. They make the brake pedal firmer, but at the expense of feel ultimately. The other problem is that the braid can cover up a multitude of sins (a friend of mine had one perish from the inside on her MX-5. She found out when her brakes failed).

Best bet IMHO is a new set of OEM hoses. If they were THAT good, every car would have them out of the factory.

[dave_s13]

I think it depends on how good, or bad, your brakes were as standard.

My MR2 came with braided hoses all round, the previous owner said they made bugger all difference but MR2 Turbos have v good brakes as standard.

They can't do any harm though and I definately wouldn't say they were crap.

[incorrigible]

GregE240 said: If they were THAT good, every car would have them out of the factory.

I guess that's why they still produce cars with drum brakes

[GregE240]

If you read Phils post, he was asking for people's opinions. I gave him mine.

[spnracing]

I've just refitted a set of Goodrich hoses to my Golf. They dramatically improve pedal feel once the fluid gets some heat in it, they are a must for any competition car and I would have thought a worthwhile addition to any road car too.

[pies]

Don't some of these braided hoses lead to MOT failures as garages can not tell the condition of the liner so fail the brakes

[pdv6]

So how do they tell with 'normal' ones?

[incorrigible]

GregE240 said: If you read Phils post, he was asking for people's opinions. I gave him mine.

Just pointing out that OEM is always a case of quality vs price

Most higher quality cars do have braided hoses as standard

Also disagree about the feel, different certainly, but I would say better

I take your point about the parts wearing out, but this is a service problem IMHO and your friend had problems because of a badly maintained car, not because of wrong choice of parts

As you say IMHO of course

[incorrigible]

pdv6 said: So how do they tell with 'normal' ones?

Normal ones are inspected for perished rubber specifically in the "visual check" during the MOT

The pressure the system can take is checked only by a massive boot on the pedal during the brake test. Although as this is far greater than you would apply during even very spirited driving, if the pipes don't burst (happens more regularly than you'd think) it's deemed OK for another year (although I think most maufactures recommend the same test at the six monthly service)

[filmidget]

Thanks for the replies.

They *seemed* to improve pedal feel on my Midget (placebo perhaps?)

Have heard the point about MOT failures before. Not sure how correct the MOT'er is being 'cos if you can't see something on an MOT you generally can't fail it on that?

But the MOT is done by garage the F-in-L works at anyway, so don't think it will be a problem

Having had a search around, I have seen mention of bursts through trapped muck etc, along with recommendations of either putting rubber hose over to protect against this, to changing every 5 years just 'cos you can't check the condition of the liner.

Leaning towards the parts man being a pillock, or makes more profit on OEM hoses.

Cheers, Phil

[pdv6]

incorrigible said:

pdv6 said: So how do they tell with 'normal' ones?

Normal ones are inspected for perished rubber specifically in the "visual check" during the MOT

Fair enough, but the question was really about the 'internal check'

The pressure the system can take is checked only by a massive boot on the pedal during the brake test. Although as this is far greater than you would apply during even very spirited driving, if the pipes don't burst (happens more regularly than you'd think) it's deemed OK for another year (although I think most maufactures recommend the same test at the six monthly service)

Shirley this would still apply for braided hoses, and would, in fact, pass more easily?

The hoses died on my old Mini once- the outers were fine but they had disintegrated internally. No idea how you would go about checking this and the symptom was the brakes seizing on as the fluid wouldn't return!

[incorrigible]

PDV6,

Spot on, you can't check the internal condition, the assumption is that the brake fluid hasn't got any imurities in it and so isn't eating them from the inside out

Also why the brake fluid should be changed every few years

IMHO the brake fluid should be checked at MOT time, at least for how much water it's got in it. All you can do is maintain your car and hope that the people in front and behind you on the road have done the same

[mrsd]

Given that the inners are of a higher quality than OEM brakelines, that braided hoses have a higher burst pressure and that racers the world over use them I can't see the OEM pipes being 'better' in any obvious sense Nowt in the MoT testers manual, that I can find, about what the flexible lines are made of, they just have to pass visual inspection, leaks and bulging tests. I suppose the braid could hide inner rot, but only if you use them for years with the wrong fluid or route the lines too near something hot ?

[domster]

I imagine the main benefit of braided hoses is that under racing conditions, brake temperatures (fluid and components) reach higher levels.

Rubber becomes more elastic at high temperatures and the rubber hoses could expand, causing your pedal pressure to swell the rubber rather than shove the calipers. A metal sleeve prevents this from happening.

The other benefit, AFAIK, is simply that the outer metal sheath acts as armour, ie some road debris could cut a rubber hose but couldn't get through the metal. Also worth considering if your neighbour hates you and you;ve seen him fiddle under the car with some tinsnips

[RichB]

GregE240 said:If they were THAT good, every car would have them out of the factory.

Not necessarily as most cars are built "down" to a cost, not "up" to a spec'. Rich...

[dontlift]

And they look good :-)

Well you did ask

[mikes]

Braided hoses don't stretch under pressure (as much as rubber hoses), so your pedal doesn't move as much and, potentially, you may exert greater pressure on the discs/drums.

As the pedal doesn't move as much the 'feel' changes. Apparently our sensors in our feet are more sensitive to distance moved than pressure, therefore explaining the apparent loss of feel experienced by some users. It probably depends on how soft the soles of your shoes are!

Anyway, I liked them on the Herald!!

Mike.

[filmidget]

dontlift said: And they look good :-)

Well you did ask

Spend a lot of time under cars comparing and admiring brake hoses do you?



Thanks all - you have confirmed what I thought I knew. Will be on order tomorrow...

Cheers, Phil



>> Edited by filmidget on Tuesday 25th March 18:18