V6 engine project

[cross-eyed-twit]

I thought this was general enough not to put it in the engines and drivetrain bit so here goes.

I am curious about getting a cheap V6 engine off ebay and doing it up as a project.
I am thinking about a Ford/Renault/Alfa Romeo at the mo.

criteria has to be (approx):

2.5-3.0 ltr V6 (1995 on)
cheap to buy off ebay
rebuild kits available at a reasonable cost
uprate parts available
gearboxes/clutch kits available reasonably cheap.

So what would the PH massive suggest and why?

cheers

[wadeski]

just something different: why not an inline six from a Toyota (e.g. an old 3rd generation Toyota Supra non-turbo)?

otherwise it has to be an Alfa V6, for the noise!

[MK_Bob]

I'm using a GM V6 found in Cavaliers, Calibras, omegas, vectras (with a different inlet manifold), and i believe Saab Griffins or something. They come in 2.5 or 3.0 litre, are cheap and common, i can't imagine it would cost that much for rebuild parts, and there are parts available to tune it. There are FWD and RWD gearboxes available from cavs and omegas respectively, as well as six-speed 4WD transmission systems if you can find them from Cavalier/Calibra turbo 4x4's, or the six-speed gearbox from the turbo's can be converted to FWD only. If you're thinking of forced induction, Saab did one of these 2.5 V6's with a single low pressure turbo on one exhaust bank. So if you found two of these turbo manifolds and a pair of T-25s....
The 2.5 is more resiliant to high revs as it has a shorter stroke than the 3.0, which are apparently prone to throwing rods so i wouldn't up the revs on a 3.0 without replacing/strengthening and balancing internals. Depends how far you want to go and how much you have to spend really!

I can dig up some links to parts i've looked at over the past year or so for these engines if you're interested.

Edit - What car are you thinking of putting this engine into, or does that not come into the equation?

Edited by MK_Bob on Monday 8th January 00:13

Edited by MK_Bob on Monday 8th January 00:14

[cross-eyed-twit]

As for inline sixs, too long, weight distribution and space is all important for a transaxle
as the car would be a Lotus Esprit

my engine might be uneconomically shagged so I was pipe dreaming a V6 with a flowed head and rorty exhaust (possibly turbo'd)

got any links to tuning/parts suppliers etc ?

Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Monday 8th January 00:22

Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Monday 8th January 00:27

[MK_Bob]

German company, quite famous apparently - www.dbilas.com/dbilas_eng/index.htm

For throttlebodies of course - www.jenvey.com/

www.courtenaysport.co.uk/default.htm?page=18

Search the Cavalier/Calibra section of these forums for V6 tuning, C25XE, or something to that effect. A lot of information is available here! - www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/

I don't actually have as many links as i thought, and there isn't really anything on ebay at the minute.

I managed to get one off ebay for £100 with gearbox, something should come up at some point. Those links should get you started though.

[Fidgits]

I suppose the old ford V6's from the Capri's and Mondeo's should be the cheapest to find and do up, but as someone suggested, you may be better going for a Jap V6 or V8...

[Zad]

The old Ford V6s are way too heavy. You would be better with a Rover V8 than one of the old Essex or Cologne lumps. Noble seem to quite like turbo'ed 2.5 and 3.0 Duratec V6s

[morningside]

Not a V6 but how about this engine for an interesting project?

Nice to know what mods you come up with. Hopefully I am about the buy a Mondeo with V6 2.5 sometime this week and always wondered what could be done with that lump.

Edited by morningside on Monday 8th January 08:05

[Podie]

morningside said:

Hopefully I am about the buy a Mondeo with V6 2.5 sometime this week and always wondered what could be done with that lump.

If it's an ST24 engine then the most you'll get is around 200bhp - as found in the ST200.

[Rob-C]

Can Mike Taylor at Lotusbits.com not sort you out with a second hand engine?

[Alpineandy]

Dave at www.alpinerenaulttuning.co.uk/ can tell you about the renault V6 options.
(I haven't seen him on here for a while).

[mat205125]

What kind of project?

A big consideration will be the orientation and mounting location for the engine. Front, mid or rear engine - transverse or longditudinal? This is vital if you wish to use a cheap and easily obtainable gearbox without having to have a custom clutch and sandwich plate manufactured .... gear linkages can also be a complete swine.

Why post 1995? Are you worried about cats and stuff? The emissions test for a vehicle apply to the engine and not the car (unless the car is older than the engine), i.e an old engine in a new car wont need a cat, nor will a new engine in an old car.

For noise I'd go Alfa every time. Either put it in the back transverse or up front with a 75 transaxle - I hope you aren't planning FWD

For power, however, they ain't that brilliant and a straight 6 from an M beemer or a turbo jap car would be far better.

If you have the time, budget, skill and dedication you can do pretty much what you like. If you are short of any of the 3 then you will struggle.

[ohopkins]

J-Spec KLZE Mazda K series.

2.5 litres, 200 bhp, 7250 rpm, Smooth as silk, all alloy which keeps the weight down, no problems with liners or any design flaws full stop. As quiet at 5000 rpm as it is at 2000 rpm ( untill you put the hammer down =-)

800 pounds imported from Japan with 30,000 miles on.

You could get the KLDE which was used in the MX6, but gives away 30bhp.........

[eliot]

MK_Bob said:

If you're thinking of forced induction, Saab did one of these 2.5 V6's with a single low pressure turbo on one exhaust bank.

Bob have you any more info on this - i know someone who wants to do this on a V8 and i said it was a bad idea "oems never done it" - perhaps i'm wrong!

[jezb]

Alfa 3.0 / 3.2 v6

[grahambell]

Renault V6 would certainly be easiest if your Esprit has the Renault transaxle and not the Citroen one used in early cars. Same engine was also used by Volvo, and of course it was available in turbo form in the Alpine/GTA if you can find a scrap one.

Ford Duratec V6 in Esprit has already been done with such a car featured in Practical Performance Car magazine recently.

[pentoman]

ohopkins said:

J-Spec KLZE Mazda K series.

2.5 litres, 200 bhp, 7250 rpm, Smooth as silk, all alloy which keeps the weight down, no problems with liners or any design flaws full stop. As quiet at 5000 rpm as it is at 2000 rpm ( untill you put the hammer down =-)

800 pounds imported from Japan with 30,000 miles on.

You could get the KLDE which was used in the MX6, but gives away 30bhp.........

And the Ford Probe? It's a brilliant sounding engine that one.

[Marquis_Rex]

Jaguar V6 3 litre.
Better flowing ports than the equivalent Ford Duratec engine.
Forged steel crankshaft.
Light weight, 175 Kgs dry weight.
240 Bhp out of the box, Revs as standard to 7000 rpm.

Direct acting mechanical Bucket valve train means there's more potential for tuning for extra revs than with a Hydraulic tappet type engine.


Have seen 260 Bhp with minimal modifications.

Equipment availiable to allow it to be fitted tranversely as well as longitudinally.

Give me a shout if you want performance cams done for this engine

PS: People suggesting the Alfa unit for the noise should rememember that alot of the Alfa "signiature" noise comes from tuning the induction and exhaust system which would in all likelihood be totally different for this application

Edited by Marquis_Rex on Monday 8th January 11:41

[MK_Bob]

eliot said:

MK_Bob said:

If you're thinking of forced induction, Saab did one of these 2.5 V6's with a single low pressure turbo on one exhaust bank.

Bob have you any more info on this - i know someone who wants to do this on a V8 and i said it was a bad idea "oems never done it" - perhaps i'm wrong!

As far as i understand, it's a bad idea. Saab slapped a low pressure turbo on one bank just so they could stick a turbo badge on the back of the car, the performance gain would have been pretty minimal. The only obvious problem is the difference in back pressure between the turbo and non-turbo sides of the exhaust system, i'm not sure what the consequences of this are or whether it could be helped with a balance pipe or something, but i wouldn't do it because it just doesn't seem right! Why not make up a custom manifold with the turbo mounted after all the exhaust headers have joined? Space issues?

Nice picture in your profile btw, i recognise the car from a certain Milton Keynes forum! Do you go to the off road track in the whaddon/nash area?

[mat205125]

Can anyone thing of a NA V6 that has a genuinely impressive specific output? Is there something about the V6 that stops it making 100bhp/litre plus?

I think we can all name a straight 4, V8, V12, flat 12 etc that makes better than the magic "tonne a litre" on the road, but not a V6.

Even "Sporty" V6's like the clio and 350Z need 3 or more litres to get into the mid 200bhps.

Am I talking testies?