RE: Calm Down Dear
Monday 5th November 2007
What's the fuss? This pretty much sips petrolIt would seem that despite the rising cost of fuel, the lure of overcrowded, expensive and generally inconvenient public transport isn’t winning us over.
Calm Down Dear
Esure discovers that we like cars
What's the fuss? This pretty much sips petrol
According to esure, petrol prices are set to hit an all-time high this week. Therefore it commissioned a poll to discover just how far prices would have to rise before we were put off from taking the car.
The survey found that the price of a litre would have to rise to £1.83, not far off double what it is now, before most motorists would seek alternative transport.
However, the poll also discovered that 55% of drivers would never part with their cars, no matter how expensive fuel prices become.
Esure comments that one in three drivers don’t shop around for the cheapest petrol deals, 79% of people haven’t thought about changing their attitude to driving despite the rising cost of fuel, and 37% of motorists wouldn’t consider replacing their car with a more fuel-efficient or environmentally friendly version in the next three years.
We reckon that last one’s a shocker considering the ’08 model supercharged Elise delivers a pretty healthy 31mpg.
Discussion
WeirdNeville said:
Great, thanks to this survey both Alistair Darling AND Shell know exactly how much they can stiff us for at the pumps... Thanks a lot esure....
EXACTLY.I tried to submit this exact comment this morning.
Along with ESure also won't have any qualms about putting insurance premiums up either.
How about trying some reverse psychology for a change...If fuel costs rise another 20p plus then we'll all jump on the already overcrowded toxin filled buses and late running trains, and if i'm not given my own seat at least 15ft from any overweight, sweaty chav, unemployed scrote, screaming child, etc then I won't be getting on said bus/train and will instead take a PAID day off, demanding this via the Government whose idea this was in the first place.
I want an Exige
Edited by Gretchen on Monday 5th November 09:34
What a surprise!
I have for years been telling anyone who wanted to listen in the media and politics that people will NOT give up the convenience of individualised transport - nor can the economy afford the waste of people's time that cycliing and public transport currently represent. The former is dangerous particularly in the UK were keeping the bikes and the cars apart is done so poorly. The latter is a pain to use even in W. Berlin where I recently felt so much better for waiting twenty minutes for a sardine packed full of farts and sweating bus that took 2 mins at each stop while the diver shouted at people blocking the doors.
Given the above and relative lack of autobahn mileage in the UK and the real need for ecological measures (yes I know some on here still have their heads in the sand), a sensible transport policy would include;
1. Higher speed limit on Motorways say 140 km/hr - not least because the current limit is not enforced or enforceable
2. Toll motorways and new motorways
3. Incentives to down size engines and car size in towns - if eveyone commuting in London had a Smart how much less packed the roads would be. How possibly can an individual justify a Maybach or Roller in the West End except for showing off. eg Congestion charge free for petrol engines less than 750cc and £50 or £100 pournds per day for engines over 4.6 litres (obviously excluding the AJP8) and cars longer than a Focus.
4. Increased tax on use of fossil fuels - by engine size car tax or fuel tax - sorry it's running out.
5. Separate the cars from the bicycles
6. Simpler and cheaper ticket structures on trains and buses
7. Massive public and private investment in electric and fuel cell vehicles and their manufacture - could the UK actually make modern cars for the 21st Century in a British owned company? [Prompt to a certain Mr. Dyson?]
8. improve safety by making car drivers feel less secure in their commuting vehicles - it has been shown that true bubble cars with more and stronger 'glass' and less metal results in better and more defensive driving - better for other road users and pedestrians esp. kids.
BUT destroy the car and put everyone on buses or bikes - NO, we don't want it and it will never work!
I have for years been telling anyone who wanted to listen in the media and politics that people will NOT give up the convenience of individualised transport - nor can the economy afford the waste of people's time that cycliing and public transport currently represent. The former is dangerous particularly in the UK were keeping the bikes and the cars apart is done so poorly. The latter is a pain to use even in W. Berlin where I recently felt so much better for waiting twenty minutes for a sardine packed full of farts and sweating bus that took 2 mins at each stop while the diver shouted at people blocking the doors.
Given the above and relative lack of autobahn mileage in the UK and the real need for ecological measures (yes I know some on here still have their heads in the sand), a sensible transport policy would include;
1. Higher speed limit on Motorways say 140 km/hr - not least because the current limit is not enforced or enforceable
2. Toll motorways and new motorways
3. Incentives to down size engines and car size in towns - if eveyone commuting in London had a Smart how much less packed the roads would be. How possibly can an individual justify a Maybach or Roller in the West End except for showing off. eg Congestion charge free for petrol engines less than 750cc and £50 or £100 pournds per day for engines over 4.6 litres (obviously excluding the AJP8) and cars longer than a Focus.
4. Increased tax on use of fossil fuels - by engine size car tax or fuel tax - sorry it's running out.
5. Separate the cars from the bicycles
6. Simpler and cheaper ticket structures on trains and buses
7. Massive public and private investment in electric and fuel cell vehicles and their manufacture - could the UK actually make modern cars for the 21st Century in a British owned company? [Prompt to a certain Mr. Dyson?]
8. improve safety by making car drivers feel less secure in their commuting vehicles - it has been shown that true bubble cars with more and stronger 'glass' and less metal results in better and more defensive driving - better for other road users and pedestrians esp. kids.
BUT destroy the car and put everyone on buses or bikes - NO, we don't want it and it will never work!
I think publishing such a figure on petrol pricing is foolish and dangerous. If someone in the government gets hold of it, we'll be up at £1.20 before you know it.
Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Edited by Bada Bing! on Monday 5th November 10:28
CiderwithCerbie said:
<snip>
Given the above and relative lack of autobahn mileage in the UK and the real need for ecological measures (yes I know some on here still have their heads in the sand), a sensible transport policy would include;
1. Higher speed limit on Motorways say 140 km/hr - not least because the current limit is not enforced or enforceable
2. Toll motorways and new motorways
3. Incentives to down size engines and car size in towns - if eveyone commuting in London had a Smart how much less packed the roads would be. How possibly can an individual justify a Maybach or Roller in the West End except for showing off. eg Congestion charge free for petrol engines less than 750cc and £50 or £100 pournds per day for engines over 4.6 litres (obviously excluding the AJP8) and cars longer than a Focus.
4. Increased tax on use of fossil fuels - by engine size car tax or fuel tax - sorry it's running out.
5. Separate the cars from the bicycles
6. Simpler and cheaper ticket structures on trains and buses
7. Massive public and private investment in electric and fuel cell vehicles and their manufacture - could the UK actually make modern cars for the 21st Century in a British owned company? [Prompt to a certain Mr. Dyson?]
8. improve safety by making car drivers feel less secure in their commuting vehicles - it has been shown that true bubble cars with more and stronger 'glass' and less metal results in better and more defensive driving - better for other road users and pedestrians esp. kids.
BUT destroy the car and put everyone on buses or bikes - NO, we don't want it and it will never work!
1. What's this in real money? 90MPH makes senseGiven the above and relative lack of autobahn mileage in the UK and the real need for ecological measures (yes I know some on here still have their heads in the sand), a sensible transport policy would include;
1. Higher speed limit on Motorways say 140 km/hr - not least because the current limit is not enforced or enforceable
2. Toll motorways and new motorways
3. Incentives to down size engines and car size in towns - if eveyone commuting in London had a Smart how much less packed the roads would be. How possibly can an individual justify a Maybach or Roller in the West End except for showing off. eg Congestion charge free for petrol engines less than 750cc and £50 or £100 pournds per day for engines over 4.6 litres (obviously excluding the AJP8) and cars longer than a Focus.
4. Increased tax on use of fossil fuels - by engine size car tax or fuel tax - sorry it's running out.
5. Separate the cars from the bicycles
6. Simpler and cheaper ticket structures on trains and buses
7. Massive public and private investment in electric and fuel cell vehicles and their manufacture - could the UK actually make modern cars for the 21st Century in a British owned company? [Prompt to a certain Mr. Dyson?]
8. improve safety by making car drivers feel less secure in their commuting vehicles - it has been shown that true bubble cars with more and stronger 'glass' and less metal results in better and more defensive driving - better for other road users and pedestrians esp. kids.
BUT destroy the car and put everyone on buses or bikes - NO, we don't want it and it will never work!
2. No tolls. We already pay enough in tax to support road building
3. You, sir, are an arse. IMHO. Most of us don't have one car for town and one for country. Smart cars are the Devil's spawn also. If you want to get clever with the congestion tax, how about a discount for multiple occupancy? CO2 emissions are irrelevant to congestion.
4. Engine size by definition affects the amount of tax paid.
5. Bicycles underneath, cars on top. With you there...
6. Good idea
7. You DO know how electricity is generated, and about transmission losses, and conversion losses, right?
8. Yup, a spike on the steeering wheel. You can test it.
meanwhile in BBCland, everyone is ready and happy to sacrifice everything including their first born to save teh planet from the climate change boogie man http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/7075759.stm
RobM77 said:
purdy84 said:
TonyHetherington said:
Just bought an Exige S.....supercharged car that gets to 60 in 4 seconds.
30mpg.
Ace
Snap.....30mpg.
Ace
likewise 
My 111S averages about 40mpg, and over 50 on long runs 
I don't think I ever got 50 in my 111S (let's carry this conversation over to the Lotus forum)esure said:
"37% of motorists wouldn’t consider replacing their car with a more fuel-efficient or environmentally friendly version.."
Ok, your car is maybe not very economical, but where do think its going to go if you sell it and buy something else? Its not going to disappear!
Whats the enviro cost of building a brand new car vs the saving of just a few mpg?!?
Surely it makes more sense to stick with your current car (maybe drive a little bit less) vs the cost of something new?
Bada Bing! said:
I think publishing such a figure on petrol pricing is foolish and dangerous. If someone in the government gets hold of it, we'll be up at £1.20 before you know it.
Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Living in a village where there are two buses a day, one out at 10.30am, one in at 5.30pm, no shop, no school, and the bus only comes through if he has time! Pretty much dictates my need for a Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Edited by Bada Bing! on Monday 5th November 10:28
And the few buses i've had the unfortunate opportunity to be behind recently, have emmisions that appear to be far in excess of all the cars i've owned put together.
Gretchen said:
Bada Bing! said:
I think publishing such a figure on petrol pricing is foolish and dangerous. If someone in the government gets hold of it, we'll be up at £1.20 before you know it.
Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Living in a village where there are two buses a day, one out at 10.30am, one in at 5.30pm, no shop, no school, and the bus only comes through if he has time! Pretty much dictates my need for a Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Edited by Bada Bing! on Monday 5th November 10:28
And the few buses i've had the unfortunate opportunity to be behind recently, have emmisions that appear to be far in excess of all the cars i've owned put together.
The government are fooling themselves to be honest. The flat that I rent in Taunton is a 20 minute walk to work and a ten minute walk from six supermarkets. I don't need a car here, so I live in one of those modern flats with no car parking spaces. Not a problem. However, every other weekend or so I go back to my base at my parents' house, where there is no public transport (my Dad collects me from the station - a taxi is £30...). On Saturday morning, I had a test drive, a hair cut and a physio apointment. Spent about an hour total in my car driving between them all - these journeys were probably possible on public transport, but instead of taking a morning it would have taken the entire weekend to do the lot! Basically, we need cars, and no amount of tax will drive us out of them.
I commute 20 miles cross country to work every day, from a small village into a big city. Don’t like it very much, but I've always lived round here and do not want to move into the local crime ridden suburb just to save a few pennies on travel costs. My partner commutes 10 miles in the other direction. So owning one car is pointless.
And despite this greedy governments ridiculous proclamations about investing 10 gazillion squid in schools, hospitals and public transport, the local large school is a 10 minute drive away, the local hospital is MRSA ridden but staffed by long suffering underpaid nurses, and there is absolutely no public transport nearby. Nearest bus stop is probably 6 miles away. Trains – forget it. And what little public transport I see running around the city is mostly empty, and can be found belching out pollution because guess what – they are council controlled and not covered by any need to have catalytic converters and other smog reducing systems. That’s reserved for all the hapless motorists. Last time I actually caught a train, it cost £80 for a 4 hour journey, and it was over crowded, and the bloke in front was being sick all over the place.
So in other words, no amount of public transport is ever going to solve the problem of what to do about people who aren’t economic units that live in some idealist metropolis. So what does this government try and do ? Indirectly and stealthily destroy the way of life of people who do live in the countryside.
We have an Audi 1.9TDI with 140,000 miles on it and going strong, and an RS6 for what little fun life can still give us, in between a thousand speed cameras round here.
The TDi averages 48mpg, the RS6 doesn’t.
I fill up the TDi with £60, and get 550+ miles on average. The RS6 takes a whopping £90, and worst return ever was 140 miles (heavy right foot on enjoyable roads) but 250 is normal …
And what pisses me off more than anything, is that Gordon B*stard, snatches about 80% of petrol cost in tax and vat on petrol, and us mugs pay for this with what money we have left over AFTER paying income tax, PAYE, NI, etc etc … so its actually double taxation.
Today is Nov 5th, bonfire night, and normally we are supposed to celebrate the day a citizen very nearly succeeded in blowing up the houses of parliament 400 years ago. Our local corrupt communist, sorry, labour council has deemed public fireworks displays illegal under health and bleeding safety rules, so only private fireworks are still allowed until Gordon and his cronies come up with a reason to ban that too that will probably include the words ‘environmental / dangerous / bad for someone elses healthy / anti social / too much fun”
Where is Guy Fawkes now that his country so desperately needs him.
Come on Gordon – give us a general election, you coward.
(rant over)
And despite this greedy governments ridiculous proclamations about investing 10 gazillion squid in schools, hospitals and public transport, the local large school is a 10 minute drive away, the local hospital is MRSA ridden but staffed by long suffering underpaid nurses, and there is absolutely no public transport nearby. Nearest bus stop is probably 6 miles away. Trains – forget it. And what little public transport I see running around the city is mostly empty, and can be found belching out pollution because guess what – they are council controlled and not covered by any need to have catalytic converters and other smog reducing systems. That’s reserved for all the hapless motorists. Last time I actually caught a train, it cost £80 for a 4 hour journey, and it was over crowded, and the bloke in front was being sick all over the place.
So in other words, no amount of public transport is ever going to solve the problem of what to do about people who aren’t economic units that live in some idealist metropolis. So what does this government try and do ? Indirectly and stealthily destroy the way of life of people who do live in the countryside.
We have an Audi 1.9TDI with 140,000 miles on it and going strong, and an RS6 for what little fun life can still give us, in between a thousand speed cameras round here.
The TDi averages 48mpg, the RS6 doesn’t.
I fill up the TDi with £60, and get 550+ miles on average. The RS6 takes a whopping £90, and worst return ever was 140 miles (heavy right foot on enjoyable roads) but 250 is normal …
And what pisses me off more than anything, is that Gordon B*stard, snatches about 80% of petrol cost in tax and vat on petrol, and us mugs pay for this with what money we have left over AFTER paying income tax, PAYE, NI, etc etc … so its actually double taxation.
Today is Nov 5th, bonfire night, and normally we are supposed to celebrate the day a citizen very nearly succeeded in blowing up the houses of parliament 400 years ago. Our local corrupt communist, sorry, labour council has deemed public fireworks displays illegal under health and bleeding safety rules, so only private fireworks are still allowed until Gordon and his cronies come up with a reason to ban that too that will probably include the words ‘environmental / dangerous / bad for someone elses healthy / anti social / too much fun”
Where is Guy Fawkes now that his country so desperately needs him.
Come on Gordon – give us a general election, you coward.
(rant over)
Gretchen said:
Bada Bing! said:
I think publishing such a figure on petrol pricing is foolish and dangerous. If someone in the government gets hold of it, we'll be up at £1.20 before you know it.
Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Living in a village where there are two buses a day, one out at 10.30am, one in at 5.30pm, no shop, no school, and the bus only comes through if he has time! Pretty much dictates my need for a Thing is, even if petrol was more expensive, people will still use their cars if public transport doesn't suit. Living in a village for years, to get to work would have taken me 3hrs to get to work, as opposed to 30mins in the car.
Until we start seeing more train stations (never going to happen), and far more regular bus routes connecting rural villages to big cities, the utopia of everyone travelling to work by public transport will never be achieved.
We need to give up on the shocking level of tax on petrol (or at least the pretence that it's a deterrent for car drivers), and start looking at why no one wants to use public transport.
Edited by Bada Bing! on Monday 5th November 10:28
And the few buses i've had the unfortunate opportunity to be behind recently, have emmisions that appear to be far in excess of all the cars i've owned put together.
Actually, it'd be interesting to see the emissions tests from such public transport.
Googled and got the following stats :
By December 2004 the London bus fleet profile was:
–97% Euro 2 or better due to enhanced fleet replacement programme
–88% fitted with particulate filters due to the introduction of afilter retrofit programme funded by London Buses (with part funding from the Energy Saving Trust) and new contract requirements
So I'm always stuck behind the buses that ARENT Euro 2 compliant???? And particulates are apparently down as well.
http://www.ciltuk.org.uk/download_files/redbusesgo...
rob.e said:
esure said:
"37% of motorists wouldn’t consider replacing their car with a more fuel-efficient or environmentally friendly version.."
Ok, your car is maybe not very economical, but where do think its going to go if you sell it and buy something else? Its not going to disappear!
Whats the enviro cost of building a brand new car vs the saving of just a few mpg?!?
Surely it makes more sense to stick with your current car (maybe drive a little bit less) vs the cost of something new?
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