The Forgotten Circuits

[smiller]

[waffle]Watching the qualifying for tomorrow's Czech bike GP, the commentators were discussing the "old" Brno circuit. It was, as is the usual thing with old circuits, longer and faster than modern closed racing circuits but raises questions regarding safety. I suppose you would call it the buzz / safety trade-off; a massive adrenaline rush to drive or ride around, but hugely dangerous much like the IoM TT course. A valid point was raised that, supposing such circuits were still part of various championships, would the competitors still tackle these circuits for the sake of - say - 1 championship point? Or would they waive that particular round for the sake of their safety?[/waffle]

Anyway.

It got me thinking about "forgotten" racing circuits. Those circuits that have either:

Passed into history
Those where the name still exists, but is a shadow of it's former self
Circuits that still exist, but are no longer used for major championships for safety reasons

Initial thoughts are:

Reims: Don't know much about it, but I believe it is one of the oldest dedicated race circuits

Pescara: The longest (25km) GP race circuit ever

Spa:

Barry Sheene completed the fastest ever bike GP lap on this version of the track (average speed 127mph in 1977), and LM cars of the period also raced on it Can you imagine driving a 917 on that circuit?

Hockenheim:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geoc...
Look at the link, and see how badly Hockenheim has been neutered. Shocking.

Salzburgring:
http://theracingline.net/racingcircuits/racingcirc...
Mick Doohan's favourite circuit. Particularly the left "kink" before Ostschleife. The bike (500cc two-stroke) would be nudging 190mph before pitching it in to the left hander, which was over a crest as well. So, the bike wants to go straight on, he's trying to turn it left, whilst trying to keep 2 wheels on the ground over the jump

I know there are still some great tracks in use today (Laguna, Brands GP, Cadwell, Sachsenring, Monza), but I'd love to have seen racing at the above tracks, and others like the old Imola, Le Mans without all the chicanes, and Assen before it's wings were clipped.

Any other old / forgotten tracks that you'd love to see some racing at?

[The Corporate]

Brooklands, just for the history.


Might need a bit of work, first, though.

[agent006]

Two that spring to mind are Brooklands and the old Monza banking. Bits of each still exist but only just.

Reims still exists mostly unchanged as it's all public roads.

I have it in my mind that Avus is still around in one form or another, am i wrong?

Edit: on a more modern note, i still cannot even slightly understand the thinking behind tearing up the long circuit at Hockenheim. Stop using it, fair enough but tear it up? Leave aside it costing a furtune to do.

Edited by agent006 on Sunday 17th August 00:30

[carl_w]

Pau, Solitude?

[Combover]

The Corporate said:

Brooklands, just for the history.


Might need a bit of work, first, though.

Christ, Brooklands was derided by those who made it famous even at the time!
Tim Birkin commented:

"...without exception, the most out-of-date, inadequate and dangerous track in the world."

I do agree though, that just for the history, it should be brought back. If it was regarded as dangerous by a man who overtook Carraciola's Mercedes doing 120mph, with one wheel on the grass at Le Mans, then I wonder how many modern drivers would give it a go...just for the history!

[Racefan_uk]

The old garages and pit-lane are still on the outskirts of Brno itself when you drive back from the circuit, and it's miles away from where the circuit is now, so if it had anything to do with it it must have been one hell of a track!

I've never seen a layout of the old circuit, I'll have to go and look.

[briSk]

cough, so Pau was originally a lot longer than?

[treehack]

quick search found this
http://theracingline.net/racingcircuits/racingcirc...

[PurelyRetro]

Currently in the process of being built, so is 'technically' forgotten and not known well - Gotland Ring Circuits.

[NCE 61]

Chimay in Belgium:-



Although only this part left, some good road around there though, and the drive from there to the old Reims circuit is very good.

[Alfahorn]

Crystal Palace.

[sniff petrol]

They do a lot of drives to ex-circuits in MotorSport magazine. I love it when they try and replicate the old photos.

[smiller]

I heard also that Brooklands was dicey to race on even when it was still in use in the 20's. I remember seeing an old pic of John Cobb driving this:



on his speed record attempt at Brooklands in 1933 (I think), and the car has three wheels off the ground! He eventually set a record of 144mph...

EVO recently tested a Corvette Z06 at the Gotland-Ring (the small circuit is complete, I understand), and was compared to a smaller Nordschleife; which is nice

A couple of other nominations for "forgotten" tracks:

Silverstone (I'm thinking about the layout when it was the quickest track on the GP calender - 160mph average speed mid 80's)

Fuji Speedway (highlighted in blue)



I imagine that was mighty quick!

[MartinD]

10/15 years ago a TV program had a piece with pics. & then current film of it still as it is, a circuit from the '30's (?)in Berkshire with steep banking on the bends. IIRC it was in woodland near Mortimer. I have Googled for it/Google earthed looking for it but absolutely no info on it at all.
Anybody got any clues, name or location ?

[MartinD]

Monza , the original banked circuit as seen in the film Grand Prix

[MartinD]

Nurburgring
The current Nürburgring is more properly known as the Nordschleife ('the Northern Loop') because there was another part to the original circuit: the Südschleife ('the Southern Loop').I think it was 22 miles long in total compared to 13 now.
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/sudschleife.html

Edited by MartinD on Sunday 17th August 12:44

[MartinD]

smiller said:

Reims: Don't know much about it, but I believe it is one of the oldest dedicated race circuits

I thought it used public roads with permanent pits/grandstands.
IIRC the circuit changed 2/3 times on its route through the village to the east that should be west

Edited by MartinD on Sunday 17th August 13:03

[trackcar]

I think it was rheims where they knocked down a house to reroute the circuit and make it faster! imagine that today ..

edited to add : if you check out the back issues of motor sport magazine from a few years ago they did a piece each month on circuits of old and what has happened to them.

Edited by trackcar on Sunday 17th August 12:50

[Puff Puff]

NCE 61 said:

Chimay in Belgium:-

Although only this part left, some good road around there though, and the drive from there to the old Reims circuit is very good.

There has been one bike and one car race meeting there a year until recently. My photos from last year's car meeting are here:
http://chimay2007.fotopic.net/c1344047.html

[MrKipling43]

agent006 said:

Edit: on a more modern note, i still cannot even slightly understand the thinking behind tearing up the long circuit at Hockenheim. Stop using it, fair enough but tear it up? Leave aside it costing a furtune to do.

IIRC it was something to do with getting planning permission granted for the new circuit.

The Green Party wanted the old section 'returned to nature' or some rubbish, and they have a lot of influence in Germany.