Abolishing "road tax"

[bobt]

OK. I know this has been discussed many times on different threads, but how about a bit of action by the PH massive, in the form of informing your MP/opposition candidate that it is a vote winner for you.

I don't believe that nulabour have enough brain cells between them to see the appeal to most voters, and for them it would not punish the nasty car drivers of "big" cars. Maybe Dave's lot are bit smarter. Who knows? Of course the government would need to raise the fuel duty accordingly. The government has in the past argued that having a valid tax disc shows that you have, or at least had, valid insurance and MOT. Today the big brother DVLA computer can tell the authorities that, so that argument is dead.

Advantages in abolishing "road tax"/vehicle excise duty seem to be as follows:

1. It is the ultimate fair way to tax road usage. i.e. More miles = more tax, bigger engine = more tax, heavier vehicle = more tax. If you have more than one vehicle then you are not penalised for keeping it in the garage.

2. It is green. Not that I care, but unfortunately politicians probably haven't heard of Turbobloke. i.e. more miles (hence more C02)= more tax, bigger engine (hence more CO2) = more tax, heavier vehicle/4x4 (hence more C02) = more tax.

3. It means that the ever increasing number of foreign registered vheicles, are paying their share, as they have to buy fuel and hence tax.

4. It means all those that illegally don't pay road tax, will have to pay, as they have to buy fuel.

5. It means all those nice old pre 1973 cars that get a free tax disc have to pay like the rest of us. If they only do a small mileage, then they will only pay a small tax.

6. It means that if you have a busy life and you move around a lot, that you are not going to get fined for forgetting to SORN your vehicle (C***S)

7. Save on a lot of admin staff in Swansea, although they still do all the vehicle registration and insurance database stuff. (OK not a vote winner in that constituency).

Disadvantages.

1. A few pence on a litre of fuel. Given that fuel was about 30-40P per litre more last summer, and there wasn't actually rioting and a call for the government to step down.

2. Err can't think of any more.

If we all write to our MPs/candidates suggesting they lobby central office for it to become part of the 2010 manifesto, I reckon it would win a lot more votes than it would lose. It just needs an honest explanation up front (I know that is unfamiliar ground for most politicians, but hey) then voters might understand and not only accept, but possibly even like the idea.

Just a thought.

And yes I am still on the electoral register, and yes I have written to Francis Maude.

It's easy peasy www.writetothem.com

[thinfourth2]

bobt said:

7. Save on a lot of admin staff in Swansea, although they still do all the vehicle registration and insurance database stuff.

For this reason alone it will never happen

If you had suggested a hugely complicated system involving huge call centers, computers, databases, research groups, quangos, fact finding missions, spoke creep, needless interfering, spying potential, inconvenience and huge expense then it would be a instant government policy

[mrmaggit]

Our vehicles cost us £550 a year in road tax, and we did about 10,000 miles last year. They average about 40mpg between them over that mileage, so that would equate to a rise of 48p per litre for the Government to get the same return.

So, based on 88p per litre, that means £1.36 a litre or less and we're making, any more and the Gummint makes.

Can't see them doing it, TBH, especially with the potential for having to re-allocate employees from DVLA (they'll never sack any).

It is a goos idea, though.

[bobfather]

Yes, in principle taxation via fuel is the fair method. Two problems, this would provide an opportunity for government to increase their overall income from road traffic and they will do everything in their power to do this while telling the electorate that it is better for road users. Second problem is that fuel consumption by road haulage vehicles is very high and therefore this form of taxation will cause harm to UK commerce

[mrmaggit]

Have you seen how much a lorry has to pay in road tax?

[bobt]

mrmaggit said:

Our vehicles cost us £550 a year in road tax, and we did about 10,000 miles last year. They average about 40mpg between them over that mileage, so that would equate to a rise of 48p per litre for the Government to get the same return.

So, based on 88p per litre, that means £1.36 a litre or less and we're making, any more and the Gummint makes.

Can't see them doing it, TBH, especially with the potential for having to re-allocate employees from DVLA (they'll never sack any).

It is a goos idea, though.

Your vehicles are not average though. A more typical vehicle would be £180 a year for road tax. at 12k Miles and 33 mpg that is 363 gallons, or about 1633 litres. Which is works out at about 11 pence per lite. If you factor in all the foreign registered cars, and those that a reillegal in not buying tax, then it would come down to well under 10p.

[bobt]

mrmaggit said:

Have you seen how much a lorry has to pay in road tax?

Have you noticed that perhaps more than half the lorries on UK roads are foreign registered and not only not paying road tax, but come over with a 3-400 litre tank filled up on the continent.

[bobt]

bobfather said:

Yes, in principle taxation via fuel is the fair method. Two problems, this would provide an opportunity for government to increase their overall income from road traffic and they will do everything in their power to do this while telling the electorate that it is better for road users. Second problem is that fuel consumption by road haulage vehicles is very high and therefore this form of taxation will cause harm to UK commerce

Road Haulage.......proper language. What's all this logistics bks.

I digress. Road Haulage businesses could claim the tax element (not just he VAT) back on their business.

[mrmaggit]

bobt said:

mrmaggit said:

Have you seen how much a lorry has to pay in road tax?

Have you noticed that perhaps more than half the lorries on UK roads are foreign registered and not only not paying road tax, but come over with a 3-400 litre tank filled up on the continent.

But they would continue to do this if the rate of diesel went up. Perhaps a Motorway type tax like Switzerland have levied at the point of entry to every HGV would catch them? No sticker, no entry.

[mrmaggit]

bobt said:

mrmaggit said:

Our vehicles cost us £550 a year in road tax, and we did about 10,000 miles last year. They average about 40mpg between them over that mileage, so that would equate to a rise of 48p per litre for the Government to get the same return.

So, based on 88p per litre, that means £1.36 a litre or less and we're making, any more and the Gummint makes.

Can't see them doing it, TBH, especially with the potential for having to re-allocate employees from DVLA (they'll never sack any).

It is a goos idea, though.

Your vehicles are not average though. A more typical vehicle would be £180 a year for road tax. at 12k Miles and 33 mpg that is 363 gallons, or about 1633 litres. Which is works out at about 11 pence per lite. If you factor in all the foreign registered cars, and those that a reillegal in not buying tax, then it would come down to well under 10p.

How long do you seriously expect the Gummint to stick to around 10p a litre? (much as it would save us a pile of dosh). Based on current fuel rates, I'd expect the rate would end up at about £1.40 a litre (equivalent) after a year or two.

[aciddrop616]

how about this then. you have a card given to you. you go into petrol station, top up, go to desk and pay, before paying they swipe through your card.

Mr A. Joe will have a 'normal road user bloke' type card. meaning 1-2p gets added to each liter.

Mr F.Trucker will have a 'haulage road user bloke' type card. meaning he will only pay 0.25p on top of each liter.

this system works in america (by that i mean road tax added into petrol not my above suggestion) so if a country of slack jaws can get to grips with the system i'm sure we could

Thom

[aciddrop616]

also with my above idea, as its card based they will need a call center, a fraud department, a method of tracking where a card it used.

they get to do all their big brother invasion of privacy stuff.

Win Win

[mrmaggit]

aciddrop616 said:

how about this then. you have a card given to you. you go into petrol station, top up, go to desk and pay, before paying they swipe through your card.

Mr A. Joe will have a 'normal road user bloke' type card. meaning 1-2p gets added to each liter.

Mr F.Trucker will have a 'haulage road user bloke' type card. meaning he will only pay 0.25p on top of each liter.

this system works in america (by that i mean road tax added into petrol not my above suggestion) so if a country of slack jaws can get to grips with the system i'm sure we could

Thom

Agreed, but they don't have quite the thieving lot we have.

[Guybrush]

Abolishing road tax is too much of a good idea, therefore it won't happen. The income is too useful and they can keep tabs on you. After all, if the government can even suggest that road pricing is a good idea, with monitoring of every car user's movements, monitoring masts all over the country and all the additional manpower and red tape involved, when there is already a usage tax already in place (fuel tax), then they surely won't think that simplifying things by removing road tax is a good idea. No, the real agenda is to keep a eye on you and removing the need to renew road tax every year reduces that slightly.

[artov60]

If Road Tax were abolished, it would soon be followed by a CO2 tax.

If it were changed we should change to displaying an Insurance sticker in car windows. It would give an instant indication of which cars are insured.

[artov60]

Balmoral Green said:

Abolishing "road tax"

It was abolished, in 1961.

Vehicle Excise duty is a tax on cars, not roads.

Sorry to be pedantic, call it car tax if you wish, but it isn't road tax, it has nothing to do with the roads at all.

Well it will have a lot to do with cars shortly when the Labour government spend billions trying to stop the Americans withdrawing their car manufacturing back to the US. Gordon will spend taxes from all sources in a vain attempt to retain some kind of manufacturing in the UK. Sadly all too late I expect.

[andy43]

aciddrop616 said:

how about this then. you have a card given to you. you go into petrol station, top up, go to desk and pay, before paying they swipe through your card.

Mr A. Joe will have a 'normal road user bloke' type card. meaning 1-2p gets added to each liter.

Mr F.Trucker will have a 'haulage road user bloke' type card. meaning he will only pay 0.25p on top of each liter.

this system works in america (by that i mean road tax added into petrol not my above suggestion) so if a country of slack jaws can get to grips with the system i'm sure we could

Thom

That sounds far too sensible for labour. Excellent idea - monitoring hgv fuel usage would be tricky, but waaaay cheaper and easier than the current car tax/ANPR/stupid-dvla-letters-about-a-car-you-sold-a-year-ago system we have now.
Can you tell I had a letter from the dvla today?

[Balmoral Green]

My point is that if you are going to write to your MP or the Government, you need to use at the very least the correct terms. How can they respond to a letter or petition asking to abolish something that was abolished way back in 1961? It's all very well saying we all know what we mean, but they aren't going to make that assumption. If you write to them about VED, you may get a responce back concerning VED. If you write about RFL, they will write back and say it doesn't exist. Nice get out for them.

Sincerely,

Mr Mega Pedant.

PS, I agree with the OP completely too.

Edited by Balmoral Green on Saturday 21st February 12:21

[andy43]

Pedantic?
OED entry for "government"

• noun 1 treated as sing. or pl. the governing body of a state. 2 the system by which a state or community is governed. 3 the action or manner of governing a state, organization, or people.

Well, they sure as hell ain't doing much of that at the moment.

[vpr]

It all makes absolute perfect sense. Always thought placing it fuel is fair for all the reasons mentioned....especially when you have as many cars as me. My RFL bill at the end of this month is circa £1600, can't imagine what it is p/a.

I'm not going to play this game anymore......they can stick it.