Auto Union Type C
Discussion
I was watching Ultimate Cars on Discovery Turbo earlier and they featured the Auto Union Type C. They mentioned it had a top speed of 252mph which is astonishing for the 1930's. But it only had 520 bhp.
My question is, how can a car with 'only' 520 bhp have such a high top speed. Top speed is largely based on power and aerodynamics, weight is relatively irrelevant. So how come the Veyron with an extra 480 bhp has the same top speed. I can't see the Auto Union being any more aerodynamic than the Veyron, so how is it possible?
My question is, how can a car with 'only' 520 bhp have such a high top speed. Top speed is largely based on power and aerodynamics, weight is relatively irrelevant. So how come the Veyron with an extra 480 bhp has the same top speed. I can't see the Auto Union being any more aerodynamic than the Veyron, so how is it possible?
dpbird90 said:
The Auto Union is very streamlined, much moreso than just about anything. Also weight comes into the equation, the Bugatti weighs 1880kg. The Auto Union weighs probably around half that.
But surely you need power to achieve a good top speed. Wind resistance is the barrier, and you need power to overcome it, weight won't really help at those speeds?Also, I can't imagine an open top car designed in the 30's being more aerodynamic than an up to date hypercar that has undergone extensive wind testing including wind tunnels.
According to this link the top speed is 236mph: http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-Auto-Union-T... On the TV program they definitely said 252mph, as they made a comparison to the McLaren F1.
littleandy0410 said:
Ye Olde style miles and hours.
After decimalisation, miles and hours changed, obviously.
Eh?After decimalisation, miles and hours changed, obviously.
dpbird90 said:
The Auto Union is very streamlined, much moreso than just about anything. Also weight comes into the equation, the Bugatti weighs 1880kg. The Auto Union weighs probably around half that.
Weight doesn't affect top speed, just acceleration.topless_mx5 said:
According to this link the top speed is 236mph: http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-Auto-Union-T... On the TV program they definitely said 252mph, as they made a comparison to the McLaren F1.
Could well be the 252 was with a 'Streamliner' body a la the 300SLR streamliner. Top speed was like 30/40mph higher with that body instead of the 'standard' one. LukeBird said:
topless_mx5 said:
I can't see the Auto Union being any more aerodynamic than the Veyron, so how is it possible?
I would imagine it is, because it doesn't have aero surfaces to keep it glued to the road. Less aero = more drag = more mph!
LukeBird said:
topless_mx5 said:
I can't see the Auto Union being any more aerodynamic than the Veyron, so how is it possible?
I would imagine it is, because it doesn't have aero surfaces to keep it glued to the road. Less aero = more drag = more mph!
whitevanman88 said:
Could someone substantiate how weight does not affect top speed please?
A higher mass would result in a greater intertia to overcome, hence acceleration suffering. Wind resitance is the main factor limiting a cars top speed (in a vacuum much higher speeds would be possible) so aerodynamics and power are needed for top speed. I think.Art_Vandelay said:
whitevanman88 said:
Could someone substantiate how weight does not affect top speed please?
A higher mass would result in a greater intertia to overcome, hence acceleration suffering. Wind resitance is the main factor limiting a cars top speed (in a vacuum much higher speeds would be possible) so aerodynamics and power are needed for top speed. I think.Same story with Lotus' and Caterfields etc.
major thread resurface!! 
You have to admire a car with near 600hp and 250+mph top speed on bicycle tyres, built in the 1930's.
I was genuinely astonished.
Loved the bit where the crankshaft has over 1000 parts to it. Sheer Class. Not to mention the crazy folk that drove them. Mr Hamilton and Vettel would you like a go?
You have to admire a car with near 600hp and 250+mph top speed on bicycle tyres, built in the 1930's.
I was genuinely astonished.
Loved the bit where the crankshaft has over 1000 parts to it. Sheer Class. Not to mention the crazy folk that drove them. Mr Hamilton and Vettel would you like a go?
Tango13 said:
I remember watching an interview with the ex-GP racer John Watson after he was given a go in a pre-war Mercedes racer, he was genuinly shocked at how fast it was!
There are some astonishing pieces of engineering through the years which seem to have slipped under the carpet.Saying that the Jaguar D-Type and the Porsche 917 are both a couple of stunning (and challenging) cars.
Missed..
Years ago, before the start of each Grand Prix channel 4(yes, them) did a Grand Prix preview show, where they locked some F1 joruno in a room, plied them with wine and let them chat between old films- stewart at Monaco, 9 days in summer, and a film from the 30s about the silver arrows etc etc)
It was great viewing, and one of them told a story of the first time Crosthwaite & Gardner restored one of the auto unions, taken from one of the salt mines. They couldnt get the head to seal- either it leaked, or they torqued it down too much and it warped.
So, they removed a tiny piece and sent it off to British steel for analysis.
Expecting some sort of ultra-rare unobtanium to be used, the report, when it can back said something like: "EN42T steel. Suggested uses: garden furniture!"
More sobering, when they cleaned one carb they found someone (presumably a slave in the salt mine) had scratched the star of david on one).
Oh, and I bet of all the current drivers, Hamilton and Vettel would be the two to relish a drive in one of these cars.
It was great viewing, and one of them told a story of the first time Crosthwaite & Gardner restored one of the auto unions, taken from one of the salt mines. They couldnt get the head to seal- either it leaked, or they torqued it down too much and it warped.
So, they removed a tiny piece and sent it off to British steel for analysis.
Expecting some sort of ultra-rare unobtanium to be used, the report, when it can back said something like: "EN42T steel. Suggested uses: garden furniture!"
More sobering, when they cleaned one carb they found someone (presumably a slave in the salt mine) had scratched the star of david on one).
Oh, and I bet of all the current drivers, Hamilton and Vettel would be the two to relish a drive in one of these cars.
topless_mx5 said:
I can't see the Auto Union being any more aerodynamic than the Veyron, so how is it possible?
Even if it had exactly the same drag coefficient, it is a hell of a lot smaller. Frontal surface area matters more than the Cd.Coaches are designed to have a pretty good Cd, similar to many cars but its still a huge frontal area to push through the air.
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