VW/Audi owners - question

[tenohfive]

I hope I'm worrying about nothing...but here goes. Whilst on the motorway a light came up on the trip computer screen of my Bora (2004, 1.9 TDi) saying "check oil level."

That got me slightly worried, so I came off at the next junction, switched the engine off then five minutes later checked the oil level. It seemed low, but I suspected that was because the engine hadn't had time to settle. Looked under car for dripping oil, none visible on floor and couldn't see anything obvious under the bonnet, so I restarted the engine and got no message this time. So I drove the five odd miles home.

I'm just wondering if this is a general reminder (i.e an automated message that comes up periodically - had the car 6 months now) or something thats come up because a fault has been detected. I've not got a user manual so I can't check what it means in the book. Not sure if its related, but its due a service at 60K - I'm now a few hundred miles over, though trip computer says another service due in a thousand miles (and its booked in tomorrow for big service and cam belt replacement.)

I will check it in a few minutes (just got home) but if someone who is familiar with this message on VAG cars could let me know if I'm panicking over nothing or if it is something to worry about, I'd appreciate it.

[LeoSayer]

Don't worry, it only means what it says - it's running low on oil, so top it up.

Of course, if you fill it up and it comes back on regularly, then you have a problem.

[DaveL86]

As far as I understand the "Check Oil Level" message has no other meaning other than to alert you to low oil level, owned my car (2002 1.9 Bora) for over two years and yet to see it although I'm counting down to a service (1200 miles to go).

Since you said you checked your oil level and it looked a bit low (albeit while engine was still warm) it could just be the engine oil is low and the sensor only detected it once because of the road incline/decline (I have no idea how the oil level sensor is placed)

If I were you I would check the oil once the engine is stone cold, top up if necessary ([u]see below[/u]) otherwise forget it.

If you need to top-up your oil make sure you use the correct oil, a 2004 bora TDi will most likley be PD (Pumpe Düse) engine and should use PD spec oil ONLY this is important, especially if you plan on getting your car serviced at a non VW garage/specialist make sure they use the correct spec oil (or this could happen: http://gallery.xpowerforums.com/data/571/IMG_3102.... ).

EDIT:

If you're using a local indy who may not be aware of the PD oil requirement it may be in your interest to supply the garage with the oil your self, better safe than sorry.

Edited by DaveL86 on Thursday 8th October 20:24

[qooqiiu]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Oil Pres ! What would you do?

[dentedwing]

And if you want to find out if your car is PD type your reg into the reg finder on eurocar parts, Its got a very comprehensive car data base and knows if its PD or not, unlike some sites that give you a generic '1.9TD bora' list and leave you to work out the complicated bits.

[DaveL86]

tenohfive said:

cam belt replacement

Also while we are giving advice is the garage who is doing your cambelt also replacing the waterpump? these are prone to failure due to their plastic fin design and its recommended you have it replaced while your cambelt is off, it won't cost any more labour (if your garage is legit) it'll only cost the part of the water pump.

Edited by DaveL86 on Thursday 8th October 20:27

[poo at Paul's]

Yes, it is a level sensor not a pressure sensor, so not the end of the world. If the light came on on Mway, (ie not round a corner) there should nto be any damage done if you fill it up now.

How amny miles has the car done. They can use a bit of oil so keep on top of it now you know.

[bigdods]

ok not a VW but my Omega says 'check oil level' when its half way down the dipstick and 'oil level low' when its at the bottom. Maybe its just a reminder to top up if its a bit low.

[tenohfive]

DaveL86 said:

tenohfive said:

cam belt replacement

Also while we are giving advice is the garage who is doing your cambelt also replacing the waterpump? these are prone to failure due to their plastic fin design and its recommended you have it replaced while your cambelt is off, it won't cost any more labour (if your garage is legit) it'll only cost the part of the water pump.

They said the same thing over the phone, which I agreed with (I've some basic mechanical knowledge from working in the trade) - so they'll be doing the pump at the same time.

Any way of confirming if it needs PD oil? Had a look through the service book (including print off attached to it with engine number, gearbox details etc) but theres nothing jumping out at me, except that its mentioned as 74 KW - I don't know if that means engine type/gearbox power? Google wasn't my friend unfortunately.

I've just checked the oil now the engines cooled down - its at the bottom of the minimum. I'll be leaving at 6am to drop it off, so in terms of topping it up its a choice of BP or...BP. Can I get away with topping it up with anything else - say half a litre? If so, what?

Cheers for help so far, if someone could clarify the issue with PD oil or not I'll sleep alot better tonight.



ETA:

Engine number is either ATD or LA7W. Suspect the former. Both numbers on the VW print off in with service book.

Edited by tenohfive on Thursday 8th October 22:37

ETA again:

From this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Varia...

Only row in the table I could find with the ATD engine code and 74 KW was a PD one. Which means I (presumably) need PD oil. So am I likely to be able to get that from BP, will it be labelled as such, and if not can I use anything else instead temporarily?

Edited by tenohfive on Thursday 8th October 22:42

[DaveL86]

tenohfive said:

I've just checked the oil now the engines cooled down - its at the bottom of the minimum. I'll be leaving at 6am to drop it off, so in terms of topping it up its a choice of BP or...BP. Can I get away with topping it up with anything else - say half a litre? If so, what?

You'd have to check the spec on the back of the oil to see if it conforms to VW's minimum standards.

tenohfive said:

Only row in the table I could find with the ATD engine code and 74 KW was a PD one. Which means I (presumably) need PD oil. So am I likely to be able to get that from BP, will it be labelled as such, and if not can I use anything else instead temporarily?

74kw ATD is a 100bhp PD engine.

Look for VW 506.01 (Longlife), VW 505.01 (fixed service) or the new rating which is VW 507 (507 covers both longlife + fixed AFAIK)

[i] Please confirm the spec with VW UK or your local dealership before hand, I don't want to be responsible for anything [i]

Edited by DaveL86 on Thursday 8th October 22:53

[Rich_W]

LA7W is the paint code

When you look at the engine. Can youy see a diesel injector pump? If so then its not PD. Worth pointing out that even if you have a PD engine. You can run it on NON longlife oil if you are on a Time and Distance regime (10k or 12Months) BUT it has to be the correct grade. from memory 5w30 which you might find is cheaper than the LL stuff.

[tenohfive]

Rich_W said:

LA7W is the paint code

When you look at the engine. Can youy see a diesel injector pump? If so then its not PD. Worth pointing out that even if you have a PD engine. You can run it on NON longlife oil if you are on a Time and Distance regime (10k or 12Months) BUT it has to be the correct grade. from memory 5w30 which you might find is cheaper than the LL stuff.

Cheers. As you might be able to guess (given I've posted a paint code) I wouldn't know a diesel injector pump if it slapped me in the face.

From doing more digging and various googling, it seems that VW standard 505.01 (normal for 10K servicing) will be fine (as Dave said.) So at least I've got an idea of what to pick up to get me there.

Once I'm there, I'll leave a note in the car about PD engine oil and hope they don't think I'm a patronising barstud.

Cheers folks.

[DaveL86]

Rich_W said:

You can run it on NON longlife oil if you are on a Time and Distance regime (10k or 12Months) BUT it has to be the correct grade. from memory 5w30 which you might find is cheaper than the LL stuff.

I really hate to tell people they are wrong in fear of sounding like a idiot but here goes...

The viscosity characteristics (i.e. 5w30) means nothing in relation to what I'm saying, you can get 5w40 that doesn't meet vw's standards and 5w40 oil that meets vw's standards, get it wrong and it might be ok for 1000+ miles until it chews the cam because the oil has broken down and lost its lubrication property's and your looking at an engine rebuild possibility.

Like I said, hate saying people are wrong, just want to get my point across.

[b]EDIT:[b]

In the interest of showing how serious getting the wrong oil for a PD can be, here's some pictures:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=214686

Ignore the fact its on a MG-Rover website, its relating to the guys Golf which has only done 50k :O

Edited by DaveL86 on Thursday 8th October 23:12

[tenohfive]

Whilst laying in bed, aware of the fact I need to be up in 5 hours, I had a thought:

If it is a PD engine (everythings pointing that way, but only a call to VW will prove at my end) rather than take the chance of the garage putting the wrong oil in, I thought it'd be a bright idea to just buy a few litres of PD oil and leave it on the passenger seat when I drop the keys off (leave in letterbox jobby, due to the time.)

Only that got me thinking - if it turns out I'm wrong, and its not a PD engine - would that do it more harm than good? Is it a case of PD oil will be fine in other engines, but not the other way round? Or does it need to be the right oil for the right engine?

Gah, never had to worry about this stuff when I had a Fiesta. I'm more nervous than anything because I've not used this garage before, have no idea what they're like, and I cannot afford an engine rebuild.

[DaveL86]

tenohfive said:

Whilst laying in bed, aware of the fact I need to be up in 5 hours, I had a thought:

If it is a PD engine (everythings pointing that way, but only a call to VW will prove at my end) rather than take the chance of the garage putting the wrong oil in, I thought it'd be a bright idea to just buy a few litres of PD oil and leave it on the passenger seat when I drop the keys off (leave in letterbox jobby, due to the time.)

Oi we are going to fall out, scroll up that was my idea! that would be the best plan although they could use their stuff they'll get in a barrel (most likely) and pocket your good stuff, sorry I don't trust anyone

tenohfive said:

Only that got me thinking - if it turns out I'm wrong, and its not a PD engine - would that do it more harm than good? Is it a case of PD oil will be fine in other engines, but not the other way round? Or does it need to be the right oil for the right engine?

I have no idea if it will cause a problem, although you will find some general purpose (non VW only oil) like some castrol long life oil's that conform to VW's standards and they can be used in non PD engines, but like I've said ring VW customer services who will be happy to put your mind at rest.

tenohfive said:

Gah, never had to worry about this stuff when I had a Fiesta. I'm more nervous than anything because I've not used this garage before, have no idea what they're like, and I cannot afford an engine rebuild.

Unfornatually brands like VW like pioneering new technologies (although they're moving away from PD back towards the new gen CR diesel engines now) it's just the local indy garages who buy oil by the barrel to keep costs down either don't keep up or don't care.

You might want to look around your area for a VW specialist, I know of a VERY good VW/Audi specialist garage in Manchester if that's local to you for the future.

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/page.php?xPage=worksh...

^^ hope that doesn't break any forum rules, I'm noway associated with them just a happy customer.

Edited by DaveL86 on Thursday 8th October 23:53

[tenohfive]

Think I will do for future reference. Other end of the country, but think you're right about the VW specialist idea.

After a fairly rough few hours sleep, I'm just going to leave them to it. When I pick it up I'll find out if they've put boggo 10w40 in there I'll do an oil change myself tomorrow morning with the right stuff in there. If it turns out they've put PD oil in there I'll know that they're worth using again. Bit of a wussy option but I can't be bothered with an argument, and whilst I can talk cars till the cows come home I've never done an oil change in my life so probably not such a bad thing.

Cheers Dave.

[JD123d]

When I had my SEAT the check oil level came up a couple of weeks after I had had it serviced by the main dealer. When I took it in to complain they just told me that it was an automated alarm, not caused by the detection of a fault, and he just held the mileage reset button for ~20 secs and the warning went away. Not sure whether this will cheer you up or not.

[HellDiver]

507.00 covers all VW diesels, so just use that.

My car has the 140hp 2.0TDi PD lump with DPF and it uses 507.00 - your 1.9 will be 100% using the same oil.

[DaveL86]

tenohfive said:

Think I will do for future reference. Other end of the country, but think you're right about the VW specialist idea.

Most good VW specialist are part of the online (and offline) VW community, I'm a member of uk-mkivs.net and managed to find these specialist a little lower down the country.

AmD Technik- West Thurrock, Essex
http://www.amdessex.com/contact.cfm

JBS - Chesterfield, Derbyshire
http://www.jbsautodesigns.co.uk/content/5/

JKM Motor Services - Portsmouth, Hampshire
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/service.htm

I can't vouch for them since I've never used them, and VW specialist will be more expensive than a local indy but are vastly cheaper than a main dealer and are just as skilled (In most cases being VW enthusiast they know more than VW )

tenohfive said:

After a fairly rough few hours sleep, I'm just going to leave them to it. When I pick it up I'll find out if they've put boggo 10w40 in there I'll do an oil change myself tomorrow morning with the right stuff in there. If it turns out they've put PD oil in there I'll know that they're worth using again.

Being the untrusting bast that I am I would want to see the tub of oil they put in and check the specs, its just too easy for them to see "of course we did sir", and if they didn't put the right stuff in don't get complaisant thinking "it sounds ok... it'll be ok..."

tenohfive said:

I've never done an oil change in my life so probably not such a bad thing.

Couple of things:
1. Don't use the jack in the boot! its for emergency only and you'll end up losing your face or another important body part, if your going to do your own services from now on get a cheap 2T trolly jack (£30ish in Halfrauds but you could prolly find one cheaper).

2. The oil filter + housing can hold quite a bit of oil, which could be the wrong oil in your case.

3. You need to change your sump plug after you've removed it ( part nr N90813201 - confirm before buying to check its right ) it's only a couple of quid.

tenohfive said:

Cheers Dave.

If it saves you starting a thread "I've got this awful taping noise, what is it?" or "Stranded on the M1, now need rebuild" then its time well spent.

Edited by DaveL86 on Friday 9th October 13:45

[Rich_W]

DaveL86 said:

Rich_W said:

You can run it on NON longlife oil if you are on a Time and Distance regime (10k or 12Months) BUT it has to be the correct grade. from memory 5w30 which you might find is cheaper than the LL stuff.

I really hate to tell people they are wrong in fear of sounding like a idiot but here goes...

The viscosity characteristics (i.e. 5w30) means nothing in relation to what I'm saying, you can get 5w40 that doesn't meet vw's standards and 5w40 oil that meets vw's standards, get it wrong and it might be ok for 1000+ miles until it chews the cam because the oil has broken down and lost its lubrication property's and your looking at an engine rebuild possibility.

Like I said, hate saying people are wrong, just want to get my point across.

]

Yes its true that not all 5w30s are not the same. But so long as you stick to the major brands and not the crap you can buy in Asda. you'll be fine. VW have arrangements with Castrol at the moment. Look on the back at the particularly boring 50XXXX numbers We currently use Shell 5w30 LL on the services. VW also have a "cheaper" brand called Quantum (made my Castrol IIRC) so you can buy it from VW Dealers.