Question about electric/hybrid cars?
Discussion
Me - I'm a bit of a numpty, so I have a question:
Let me ask a simple question about the Prius (as an example). Now let me assume it does, say, 60 mpg as an average - which is, I don't know, 15 mpg more than an equivalent diesel powered car. However, the thing has to be plugged in overnight in order to achieve this! As such, when the (fossil fuel generated) electricity is factored in what is the 'real' (a) cost of running the car; and (b) total CO2 output, including the electricity generators; My point is, when the fans of such vehicles promote these products they only talk about mpg and not the 'total' cost/CO2 output - factoring in the leccytrizzity.
Also, I presume that electric cars are generally slightly more economic (excluding the cost of manufacture, which I know is more) so why is this? It's still a one tonne piece of kit that needs moving so I presume the energy required is similar. Though I guess there's less heat and noise (which require energy).
Let me ask a simple question about the Prius (as an example). Now let me assume it does, say, 60 mpg as an average - which is, I don't know, 15 mpg more than an equivalent diesel powered car. However, the thing has to be plugged in overnight in order to achieve this! As such, when the (fossil fuel generated) electricity is factored in what is the 'real' (a) cost of running the car; and (b) total CO2 output, including the electricity generators; My point is, when the fans of such vehicles promote these products they only talk about mpg and not the 'total' cost/CO2 output - factoring in the leccytrizzity.
Also, I presume that electric cars are generally slightly more economic (excluding the cost of manufacture, which I know is more) so why is this? It's still a one tonne piece of kit that needs moving so I presume the energy required is similar. Though I guess there's less heat and noise (which require energy).
Electric motors work just like generators if you drive them mechanically to produce current.
Main benefit with EV's even if you consider a postulated similar 'efficiency' to diesel (40% of the energy in getting to the wheels) is that your only paying what 5% VAT on electric unlike the duty on fuel.
Main benefit with EV's even if you consider a postulated similar 'efficiency' to diesel (40% of the energy in getting to the wheels) is that your only paying what 5% VAT on electric unlike the duty on fuel.
I would have no issues considering a hybrid for my next car, but i'm still not sure why they even exist currently - other than perhaps as a test bed for future technologies.
I've a Passat Bluemotion which whilst being as dull as dishwater happens to average 64mpg and looks like a 'normal' car. The golf bluemotion betters that by probably another 10mpg.
I dont understand then why anyone would consider a current hybrid such as the Honda Insight or Toyota Prius which 'only' seem to average 45mpg and 60mpg respectively, but stand out like a sore thumb when you're driving them.
I've a Passat Bluemotion which whilst being as dull as dishwater happens to average 64mpg and looks like a 'normal' car. The golf bluemotion betters that by probably another 10mpg.
I dont understand then why anyone would consider a current hybrid such as the Honda Insight or Toyota Prius which 'only' seem to average 45mpg and 60mpg respectively, but stand out like a sore thumb when you're driving them.
paoloh said:
We have a fleet user of Prius's and they are getting 70 plus.
The Auris hybrid comes out in the summer which whilst still dull, will not stand out and scream middle class smugness like a Prius.
Again the golf bluemotion will better that easily, which much less complicated technology.The Auris hybrid comes out in the summer which whilst still dull, will not stand out and scream middle class smugness like a Prius.
I'd really like to see a hybrid average 90mpg before i'd consider it a worthwhile step forward.
frosted said:
A passat averages more than 40 mpg in traffic shocker .
I think not
Can you point me to where i said 'in traffic'?I think not
Short journeys (2 miles or less) about 50mpg
Commuting (23 miles - 8 miles A class roads, 14 miles motorway, 1 mile city driving) on average 72mpg over the journey. Best 83.4mpg over the journey.
Overall average 64mpg.
All these figures taken from the journey computers, but checked overall against miles per tank. Currently getting approx 975 miles from the 70 litre tank. Do the maths.
frosted said:
That is someone typing loads of excrement , my colleague has one and he can't get over 35 mpg in London . Spoke to vw and apparantly that's normall
and yes he gets 55 mpg at 65 mph
I get 975 miles out of a 70 litre tank of diesel in my Passat 2.0TDI CR Bluemotion. I can prove that from fuel receipts, trip computer readings, etc if needs be.and yes he gets 55 mpg at 65 mph
Heres a review from businesscar.co.uk
http://www.businesscar.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4...
businesscar said:
This may sound a little bit over the top, and maybe it is. However, on my first trip in the 2.0-litre diesel Passat, the trip computer read 75.8mpg after 53 mainly motorway miles, and all I’d done was turn off the aircon and set cruise control to 70mph.
The official combined fuel figure is 57.6mpg and the extra-urban figure is 68.9mpg. Until now, we’ve only ever got near official figures in any car we’ve tested – with this Bluemotion 2 we smashed the official figure.
If you think the 75.8mpg figure was a one-off, I also achieved 69.2mpg with the aircon on and without cruise control for the return commute. Thinking I could do much better I also tested the car at 65mph using cruise and with no aircon and didn’t quite break the 80mpg barrier with a 79.8mpg stat.
In town the figure drops a touch, but for a week’s worth of driving the BusinessCar team achieved and average of 58.2mpg. We’d used a quarter of a tank of diesel, covered about 300 miles, and the distance to empty still read more than 700.
By the way, your attitude stinks.The official combined fuel figure is 57.6mpg and the extra-urban figure is 68.9mpg. Until now, we’ve only ever got near official figures in any car we’ve tested – with this Bluemotion 2 we smashed the official figure.
If you think the 75.8mpg figure was a one-off, I also achieved 69.2mpg with the aircon on and without cruise control for the return commute. Thinking I could do much better I also tested the car at 65mph using cruise and with no aircon and didn’t quite break the 80mpg barrier with a 79.8mpg stat.
In town the figure drops a touch, but for a week’s worth of driving the BusinessCar team achieved and average of 58.2mpg. We’d used a quarter of a tank of diesel, covered about 300 miles, and the distance to empty still read more than 700.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 21st March 14:23
daemon said:
I would have no issues considering a hybrid for my next car, but i'm still not sure why they even exist currently - other than perhaps as a test bed for future technologies.
I've a Passat Bluemotion which whilst being as dull as dishwater happens to average 64mpg and looks like a 'normal' car. The golf bluemotion betters that by probably another 10mpg.
I dont understand then why anyone would consider a current hybrid such as the Honda Insight or Toyota Prius which 'only' seem to average 45mpg and 60mpg respectively, but stand out like a sore thumb when you're driving them.
Hybrids aren't diesels, so you get the economy without the farm yard sound effects.I've a Passat Bluemotion which whilst being as dull as dishwater happens to average 64mpg and looks like a 'normal' car. The golf bluemotion betters that by probably another 10mpg.
I dont understand then why anyone would consider a current hybrid such as the Honda Insight or Toyota Prius which 'only' seem to average 45mpg and 60mpg respectively, but stand out like a sore thumb when you're driving them.
Also while they are quite technologically advanced, they don't seem to suffer from it like common rail diesels do with injector, turbo, DPF problems and the like.
My mum has a hybrid, she bought it 'cause she wanted something that did reasonable MPG and her and my dad don't like diesels - job done.
I'd certainly choose a Prius over a Golf Bluemotion. But then I'd choose a GTI over either.
Really sorry about my attitude but it seems most people get an average of 57 mpg on the mway and a lot less in town .
The point I'm making is that a hybrid 1.5 engine can be very good for a big town like London .
For example it can drive for 1.5 miles on electri only at under 20 mph , this is why people are buying it . Take the hybrid out of London and what you get is a pretty uneconomic car
The point I'm making is that a hybrid 1.5 engine can be very good for a big town like London .
For example it can drive for 1.5 miles on electri only at under 20 mph , this is why people are buying it . Take the hybrid out of London and what you get is a pretty uneconomic car
Ok.
As i dont like people calling me a LIAR, or of talking s
t
Last fill was on 8th March, 69.52 litres, which was a fill from pretty much empty. That took the car to completely full
Distance so far on that fuel = 645 miles
Fuel tank remaining, showing over 1/3 of a tank remaining.
AVERAGE fuel economy over those 645 miles = 64mpg
As i dont like people calling me a LIAR, or of talking s
tLast fill was on 8th March, 69.52 litres, which was a fill from pretty much empty. That took the car to completely full
Distance so far on that fuel = 645 miles
Fuel tank remaining, showing over 1/3 of a tank remaining.
AVERAGE fuel economy over those 645 miles = 64mpg
Edited by daemon on Sunday 21st March 14:48
Edited by daemon on Sunday 21st March 14:51
frosted said:
Really sorry about my attitude but it seems most people get an average of 57 mpg on the mway and a lot less in town .
The point I'm making is that a hybrid 1.5 engine can be very good for a big town like London .
For example it can drive for 1.5 miles on electri only at under 20 mph , this is why people are buying it . Take the hybrid out of London and what you get is a pretty uneconomic car
Well, theres the pics of what i'm getting.The point I'm making is that a hybrid 1.5 engine can be very good for a big town like London .
For example it can drive for 1.5 miles on electri only at under 20 mph , this is why people are buying it . Take the hybrid out of London and what you get is a pretty uneconomic car
If i'm averaging 64mpg, then it would be fairly logical that i must be getting considerably more than that on long runs, to average out getting considerably lower than that around town / when the car is cold etc. Dont forget this is the Bluemotion variant which has a load of changes made to improve economy.
Yeah, i think you're very right about the ideal environment for the current breeds of hybrids.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 21st March 14:56
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