BMW E36 325/328
Discussion
Okay, last what car type thread I promise. Didn't seem to get any response in the BMW section so I thought I'd try here...
I'm looking for a car that will cruise well on the motorway, accomodate two mountain bikes in the back (minus wheels) and yet still entertain on the twisties. Budget is flexible, but ideally less than £4k. Basically I'm about 90% decided on either a 306 GTi6 (relatively affordable classic hot hatch) or a Corrado VR6 (coupes are more my thing, but a lot more financial risk), but it did occur to me I might be missing out an obvious contender, the E36 3 Series.
Can anyone give me an idea of running costs on the sixes? Within reason petrol isn't too much of an issue due to lowish mileage and a lot of gentle motorway cruising, but maintenance is. I'm particularly keen to hear from anyone who's run a GTi6 or Corrado at some stage too.
I've never been hugely drawn to the 3-Series and I probably will go with the Pug or the VW, but it just occured to me that a nice strong 6 cylinder engine, a decent RWD chassis and all that wafting ability do deserve a moments thought before I press on with one of the others. Plus, I've been fairly actively looking for a good GTi6 or Corrado and yet to find one locally. However, the next five houses down from me all have a 3-Series of some description parked on the drive - to give you an idea of their popularity round here - and there are more results for 325/328s in a ten mile radius on Autotrader than Corrado VR6s in the whole of the UK!
I'm looking for a car that will cruise well on the motorway, accomodate two mountain bikes in the back (minus wheels) and yet still entertain on the twisties. Budget is flexible, but ideally less than £4k. Basically I'm about 90% decided on either a 306 GTi6 (relatively affordable classic hot hatch) or a Corrado VR6 (coupes are more my thing, but a lot more financial risk), but it did occur to me I might be missing out an obvious contender, the E36 3 Series.
Can anyone give me an idea of running costs on the sixes? Within reason petrol isn't too much of an issue due to lowish mileage and a lot of gentle motorway cruising, but maintenance is. I'm particularly keen to hear from anyone who's run a GTi6 or Corrado at some stage too.
I've never been hugely drawn to the 3-Series and I probably will go with the Pug or the VW, but it just occured to me that a nice strong 6 cylinder engine, a decent RWD chassis and all that wafting ability do deserve a moments thought before I press on with one of the others. Plus, I've been fairly actively looking for a good GTi6 or Corrado and yet to find one locally. However, the next five houses down from me all have a 3-Series of some description parked on the drive - to give you an idea of their popularity round here - and there are more results for 325/328s in a ten mile radius on Autotrader than Corrado VR6s in the whole of the UK!
Heres the details from my 328i
Mines cost me considerably less to run than the Mk4 Golf GTi that it replaced.
The all round ownership experiance is so much better than the Golf, ir rides better, does more mpg (because the Golf needed to be thrashed to get anywhere quick) and is just 'nicer'
And when pushed it really is quite fun to drive, but then I've never been a FWD fan.
Mines cost me considerably less to run than the Mk4 Golf GTi that it replaced.
The all round ownership experiance is so much better than the Golf, ir rides better, does more mpg (because the Golf needed to be thrashed to get anywhere quick) and is just 'nicer'
And when pushed it really is quite fun to drive, but then I've never been a FWD fan.
raceboy said:
Heres the details from my 328i
Mines cost me considerably less to run than the Mk4 Golf GTi that it replaced.
The all round ownership experiance is so much better than the Golf, ir rides better, does more mpg
That's pretty compelling. Damnit, I was hoping someone would say they cost an arm and a leg to run and this whole decision would go back to being relatively easy! To be fair the E36 doesn't grab me in the way that the Corrado does, but on paper it's even more suitable.Mines cost me considerably less to run than the Mk4 Golf GTi that it replaced.
The all round ownership experiance is so much better than the Golf, ir rides better, does more mpg
I'm firmly a RWD fan too, but the plan is to keep the Caterham on, so I'm not too worried about the daily driver providing it drives well. What's the E36 like in slippery conditions? I presume it's not going to be too exciting if it's 7am on a dark winter's roundabout. I know it's a real numptie comment, but I just remember hearing all those people complaining they were stranded in the snow.
Chris71 said:
I'm firmly a RWD fan too, but the plan is to keep the Caterham on, so I'm not too worried about the daily driver providing it drives well. What's the E36 like in slippery conditions? I presume it's not going to be too exciting if it's 7am on a dark winter's roundabout. I know it's a real numptie comment, but I just remember hearing all those people complaining they were stranded in the snow.
Snow? Great fun in a BM. If you 're that worried, get some winter tyres for it.I replied to your thread in the BM section by the way
Chris71 said:
What's the E36 like in slippery conditions? I presume it's not going to be too exciting if it's 7am on a dark winter's roundabout. I know it's a real numptie comment, but I just remember hearing all those people complaining they were stranded in the snow.
Not really much of an issue if you have decent tyres on, unless you're venturing into deep snow (by deep I mean the bottom of your car scraping on snow). I had a blast in a E36 325i Sport a few years back, the car was a early E36 but had been well cared for an had FSH.
It didnt really pick up that well, smooth almost linear power yes but didnt really roar like i expected it to and the gearing seemed a little out of sync, the gap between 2nd an 3rd too long iirc. Id previously owned a E30 BMW and i felt more at home with that and felt more connected with the car even though the E36 has better running gear it felt too well insulated from what was going on.
Never driven a 328i but i understand the extra capacity and updated engine really makes a big difference a lot more so than the HP figures would suggest. Playing with the throttle body can extract a good HP gain and take a 328i comfortably over 200hp.
Id still sooner have a corrado Vr6 over a 325i, i choose not to get the bmw and stuck with my golf 16v and a friend of mine bought the BMW instead so i still got my chance to see it in the rear veiw mirror on a/ B road blasts ;-)
dave
It didnt really pick up that well, smooth almost linear power yes but didnt really roar like i expected it to and the gearing seemed a little out of sync, the gap between 2nd an 3rd too long iirc. Id previously owned a E30 BMW and i felt more at home with that and felt more connected with the car even though the E36 has better running gear it felt too well insulated from what was going on.
Never driven a 328i but i understand the extra capacity and updated engine really makes a big difference a lot more so than the HP figures would suggest. Playing with the throttle body can extract a good HP gain and take a 328i comfortably over 200hp.
Id still sooner have a corrado Vr6 over a 325i, i choose not to get the bmw and stuck with my golf 16v and a friend of mine bought the BMW instead so i still got my chance to see it in the rear veiw mirror on a/ B road blasts ;-)
dave
Outside of normal servicing in 2 years mine has needed a rear caliper(sticking) and a central locking acutator(£70 from BMW). To be fair the caliper was through lack of use, so my fault really.
Look for one with plenty of history thats been looked after, not "my mate done it so i've got no receipts"
I am a massive corrado fan and will have one some day, just can't seem to get away from the BMW at the moment.
Look for one with plenty of history thats been looked after, not "my mate done it so i've got no receipts"
I am a massive corrado fan and will have one some day, just can't seem to get away from the BMW at the moment.
Shropshiremike said:
Snow? Great fun in a BM. If you 're that worried, get some winter tyres for it.
I replied to your thread in the BM section by the way
Thanks Mike, just seen your post in the other section - loads of good info.I replied to your thread in the BM section by the way
I'm reasonably happy to do basic jobs - oil changes, new pads/discs etc. myself and people would perhaps be more understanding of that (with suitable receipts obviously) on an old BMW than a mint GTi6 or Rado.
The big question is the bikes I guess. Does anyone know if you can get two decent sized full sussers in the back of an E36 (one with folding seats, providing the wheels are off the bikes)?
I think I've more or less ruled out the Rado due to cost. I do find the GTi6 more evocative than the BMW (shallow I know, but it is an iconic hatch and I've never been that moved by the E36) but if it manages to combine the waftiness of the VR6 with the cost of the Pug I might be tempted. All comes down to the bikes though. I can't be arsed to get a rack when I can just throw them straight in the back of a 306.
Shropshiremike said:
Chris71 said:
I'm firmly a RWD fan too, but the plan is to keep the Caterham on, so I'm not too worried about the daily driver providing it drives well. What's the E36 like in slippery conditions? I presume it's not going to be too exciting if it's 7am on a dark winter's roundabout. I know it's a real numptie comment, but I just remember hearing all those people complaining they were stranded in the snow.
Snow? Great fun in a BM. If you 're that worried, get some winter tyres for it.I replied to your thread in the BM section by the way
As for handling in the wet - mine was a 99 318iS coupe, and it was best described as "entertaining" on wet roads. Traction control was utterly useless, I'd always correct a slide and then a moment later see the TCS light flickering.
Bloody cracking car though. Okay, it only had 140bhp, but it was huge fun, surprisingly practical (rear seats folded down, could fit in longer loads easily). Small, easy to park.
Damn, I seriously miss that car ....
Elskeggso said:
I think the water pump has just gone on my 328 
If you look at a 328 that was built/registered before 1997 (I think), give BMW a ring to find out if the nikasil engine issue was sorted under warranty, I don't know whether the 325 was affected though.
Easy to do on those. Did mine as a precaution and it was so well designed it was a pleasure to replace ;o)If you look at a 328 that was built/registered before 1997 (I think), give BMW a ring to find out if the nikasil engine issue was sorted under warranty, I don't know whether the 325 was affected though.
No nikasil issues on the 325. Read about it and make your own mind up but I have two nikasil cars, it doesn't bother me.
I have had my 328 for over a year, I get 30mpg and have done 5 track days in it. Nothing has gone wrong, and it has never needed servicing (according to the on board computers variable timer).
It isn't a sports car but it's quite good fun to drive. Powerful enough, RWD and well balanced. As long as you have decent tyres and leave the TSC switched on you'd have to be trying quite hard to lose it, it's better in that respect then my old FWD Pugeot 405.
Check for rusty wheel arches and brake pipes.
As for snow performance; three times I was the only one in the office over the winter as I was the only one who could get in (in the 328, this was before I had my land rover).
I have had my 328 for over a year, I get 30mpg and have done 5 track days in it. Nothing has gone wrong, and it has never needed servicing (according to the on board computers variable timer).
It isn't a sports car but it's quite good fun to drive. Powerful enough, RWD and well balanced. As long as you have decent tyres and leave the TSC switched on you'd have to be trying quite hard to lose it, it's better in that respect then my old FWD Pugeot 405.
Check for rusty wheel arches and brake pipes.
As for snow performance; three times I was the only one in the office over the winter as I was the only one who could get in (in the 328, this was before I had my land rover).
Chris71 said:
The big question is the bikes I guess. Does anyone know if you can get two decent sized full sussers in the back of an E36 (one with folding seats, providing the wheels are off the bikes)?
Can't really speak for big bouncey MTB's but on a weekly basic I throw my 20" BMX in the back of the BMW with out any issues, regularly get 2 BMX's in there with just the front wheels off.The seats fold down but the parcel shelf is fixed which makes it a little tricky but with both the wheels off I'd have expected 2 MTB's to go in, at worst you might need to take a pedal or 2 off as well, I find they are the bits that always catch on things the worst.
Chris71 said:
I think I've more or less ruled out the Rado due to cost. I do find the GTi6 more evocative than the BMW (shallow I know, but it is an iconic hatch and I've never been that moved by the E36) but if it manages to combine the waftiness of the VR6 with the cost of the Pug I might be tempted. All comes down to the bikes though. I can't be arsed to get a rack when I can just throw them straight in the back of a 306.
Seriously a corrado isnt that fragile, have a browse of the vr6 owners club as there are a fair few daily drivers who service the thing and thats about it. That or have you considered the golf vr6 for its better hatch design but smaller engine. A good set of Anti roll bars and a few new bushes and they are a lot better than some people think.http://forums.subdriven.com/zerothread?id=3869039
Car 1991 VR6 against 325i
dave
The Pug is more entertaining - I love the 306 GTi. Used to sneer, but my friend has bought a good one an it's a revelation. Much more fun than a cooking E36, IMHO. Running costs seem minimal - except for known issues like the rear torsion beams (expensive when they go at c£300 each, I believe?). Problem with the Pug is alot of them have been thrashed - it seems the forum is a better place to buy than random classifieds...
That said (and I have only tried a 328 E36, not a 325) I'd rather have the BMW for a daily. The Pug is droney and annoying on the motorway - at least compared to the BMW which is a proper junior exec cruiser with all the comforts.
That said (and I have only tried a 328 E36, not a 325) I'd rather have the BMW for a daily. The Pug is droney and annoying on the motorway - at least compared to the BMW which is a proper junior exec cruiser with all the comforts.
Great cars. 328 is a bigger step up from the 325 in performance terms than you may expect. The 323 is a better match for the 325 depite the headline power figures.
Nikasil liners is an issue on the 2.8, I personally wouldn't buy a pre 99 car that hadn't had a replacement block. BMW can tell you if this work has been done.
They're generally reliable but do seem to eat suspension components particularly trailing arm bushes and front lower bal joints, oh and wheel bearings too. All are relatively cheap jobs to sort. Engines seem largely bullet proof.
If you go for the 328 Sport be aware that the (lovely) BBS wheels oxidise easily and are quite pricey to reapir properly.
Also look for rust spot on lower edges of doors, rear wheel arches and boot lids.
They're great cars to drive. Fantastic engines, lovely feel to all the controls, and balanced handling that can be appreicated at any speed. Generally give reasonable MPG too. 30+ on motorways 25-28 in normal driving. 20ish in Banzai mode.
They're crap in snow but who cares, why worry about the week or so per year that this is an issue? Get some cheap rims with winter tyres on if its a real concern.
I would proably say that the Pug is going to be most fun of your choices though compromised in terms of comfort. The Corrado offers little over the BMW other than being a lovely thing to look at.
Nikasil liners is an issue on the 2.8, I personally wouldn't buy a pre 99 car that hadn't had a replacement block. BMW can tell you if this work has been done.
They're generally reliable but do seem to eat suspension components particularly trailing arm bushes and front lower bal joints, oh and wheel bearings too. All are relatively cheap jobs to sort. Engines seem largely bullet proof.
If you go for the 328 Sport be aware that the (lovely) BBS wheels oxidise easily and are quite pricey to reapir properly.
Also look for rust spot on lower edges of doors, rear wheel arches and boot lids.
They're great cars to drive. Fantastic engines, lovely feel to all the controls, and balanced handling that can be appreicated at any speed. Generally give reasonable MPG too. 30+ on motorways 25-28 in normal driving. 20ish in Banzai mode.
They're crap in snow but who cares, why worry about the week or so per year that this is an issue? Get some cheap rims with winter tyres on if its a real concern.
I would proably say that the Pug is going to be most fun of your choices though compromised in terms of comfort. The Corrado offers little over the BMW other than being a lovely thing to look at.
I've a 320 so won't comment on performance, as mine is strictly 'adequate'
The E36's seem to vary with year. I was told it was BMW's first venture into water-based paint and I can believe that. It's not that tough and E36's are prone to rusting rear arches, bottoms of front wings, lower edges of boot and doors etc plus the panel behind the front grill gets a battering.
Interiors got better on the later ones but the materials (particularly earlier ones) feel cheaper than the old E28,E30 BMW's.
Engines, so long as you don't have Nikasil bore issues are pretty strong but be aware that the cooling systems are sensitive on the Alloy Block Models (323,328 etc) so keep an eye on coolant levels. Cracked heads are not unheard of.
They drive well and I have to say my 320 was almost boring in the Snow as it was far far better than my old E28 M5 in same conditions.
IMO the Coupe is actually more practical than the 4-door saloon since the rear seats split-fold on the Coupe where they are fixed in the 4 door.
Obviously the Touring is better still with no fixed shelf.
If you get a nice one, they're good little run-arounds. (They are surprisingly small when parked next to even a Mk1 Focus)
Just avoid the ones with huge DTM exhausts etc as they sound horrid.
The E36's seem to vary with year. I was told it was BMW's first venture into water-based paint and I can believe that. It's not that tough and E36's are prone to rusting rear arches, bottoms of front wings, lower edges of boot and doors etc plus the panel behind the front grill gets a battering.
Interiors got better on the later ones but the materials (particularly earlier ones) feel cheaper than the old E28,E30 BMW's.
Engines, so long as you don't have Nikasil bore issues are pretty strong but be aware that the cooling systems are sensitive on the Alloy Block Models (323,328 etc) so keep an eye on coolant levels. Cracked heads are not unheard of.
They drive well and I have to say my 320 was almost boring in the Snow as it was far far better than my old E28 M5 in same conditions.
IMO the Coupe is actually more practical than the 4-door saloon since the rear seats split-fold on the Coupe where they are fixed in the 4 door.
Obviously the Touring is better still with no fixed shelf.
If you get a nice one, they're good little run-arounds. (They are surprisingly small when parked next to even a Mk1 Focus)
Just avoid the ones with huge DTM exhausts etc as they sound horrid.
Gizmo! said:
Watch the rear wheel bearings though, they cost a bomb to replace.
Mine failed it's MOT a few weeks ago on this and they are a pig of a job to do and ended up being £300ishGad-Westy said:
Also look for rust spot on lower edges of doors, rear wheel arches and boot lids.
Mines got all these...and in an ideal world I'b get them sorted but on my 'runabout' it's a long way down my 'to do' list. 
But still overall it's a great car, does everything I ask of it, is the current 'family car' in the fleet and has even managed a track day.
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