Alfa Spider throttle delay and ASC - can anyone explain?

[RobM77]

A friend of mine just showed me something in his Alfa Spider. ASC off and car in normal mode there's a noticeable throttle delay - perhaps 0.5 to 0.75 seconds between pressing the pedal and the engine responding. Obviously most modern cars do this, so there's nothing new there, however turn ASC off and this delay is roughly halved - it's really noticeable. Does ASC really take that much away from the ECU in processing power? I tried the same trick in my Z4C a few weeks ago when my friend mentioned this to me and there's absolutely no discernable difference in the delay between DSC and and off. Weird eh? What is my BMW doing differently to his Alfa? Surely these systems are all roughly the same in basic design principle?

Oh, and the other weird thing is that when you're braking the Alfa won't allow throttle blips to change down using heel and toe, but if you turn ASC off then it does.

[RicksAlfas]

That's a funny one Rob. What engine has he got? Does it have the electronic Q2 diff?

[RobM77]

I don't know much about the car, but I think it's a 2 litre 4 cylinder. It's the FWD model.

[iggletiggle]

At least it works..

the MiTo i've currently got has shat itself after 113miles of being driven - ASC Failure - VDC unavailable/hill hold unavailable/steering correction unavailable.. Fault cleared itself within half hour though...

Alfa's eh?

[Pooh]

iggletiggle said:

At least it works..

the MiTo i've currently got has shat itself after 113miles of being driven - ASC Failure - VDC unavailable/hill hold unavailable/steering correction unavailable.. Fault cleared itself within half hour though...

Alfa's eh?

My Grade Punto has most of the same stuff and has never had a problem in nearly 50k miles, so hopefully you have just been unlucky.

[iggletiggle]

Pooh said:

iggletiggle said:

At least it works..

the MiTo i've currently got has shat itself after 113miles of being driven - ASC Failure - VDC unavailable/hill hold unavailable/steering correction unavailable.. Fault cleared itself within half hour though...

Alfa's eh?

My Grade Punto has most of the same stuff and has never had a problem in nearly 50k miles, so hopefully you have just been unlucky.

on the Alfa forums it seems that a fair % of Alfa MiTo and Fiat Punto GP owners have had the same issues, in some cases a full steering rack replacement has been carried out under warranty ..!

[RobM77]

Yes, it's a 2008 model. There is some quite significant hesitation once the throttle responds and the engine tries to pull, yes, and he also complained of that, but this is the standard DBW throttle delay I'm referring to. He's mentioned it before, but I'd never had a demonstration till last night.

[Pooh]

iggletiggle said:

Pooh said:

iggletiggle said:

At least it works..

the MiTo i've currently got has shat itself after 113miles of being driven - ASC Failure - VDC unavailable/hill hold unavailable/steering correction unavailable.. Fault cleared itself within half hour though...

Alfa's eh?

My Grade Punto has most of the same stuff and has never had a problem in nearly 50k miles, so hopefully you have just been unlucky.

on the Alfa forums it seems that a fair % of Alfa MiTo and Fiat Punto GP owners have had the same issues, in some cases a full steering rack replacement has been carried out under warranty ..!

Oh, that is not good, maybe I have been lucky.

[iggletiggle]

Pooh said:

iggletiggle said:

Pooh said:

iggletiggle said:

At least it works..

the MiTo i've currently got has shat itself after 113miles of being driven - ASC Failure - VDC unavailable/hill hold unavailable/steering correction unavailable.. Fault cleared itself within half hour though...

Alfa's eh?

My Grade Punto has most of the same stuff and has never had a problem in nearly 50k miles, so hopefully you have just been unlucky.

on the Alfa forums it seems that a fair % of Alfa MiTo and Fiat Punto GP owners have had the same issues, in some cases a full steering rack replacement has been carried out under warranty ..!

Oh, that is not good, maybe I have been lucky.

Haha yeah possibly, or a lot of us have been unlucky.. :S Just spoke to Alfa and they say its just an electrical fault and to bring it in whenever, nothing 'dangerous'

Rob, Worth looking at the link above about it, seems to be a fairly common problem mate

[10 Pence Short]

In 1972, a cracked commando was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune.
If you have a throttle delay problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire... RobM77.

Edited by 10 Pence Short on Friday 23 April 09:24

[RobM77]

10 Pence Short said:

In 1972, a cracked commando was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune.
If you have a throttle delay problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire... RobM77.

Edited by 10 Pence Short on Friday 23 April 09:24

[RicksAlfas]

10 Pence Short said:

In 1972, a cracked commando was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune.
If you have a throttle delay problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire... RobM77.

Rob, if your mate doesn't mind spending a bit he could try the Magoletsi Modification 4:
http://www.mangoletsi.com/alfa/special-offers/perf...

Unfortunately the 2.2 is not one of Alfa's finest moments, which probably explains why they no longer make it.

[RobM77]

iggletiggle said:

Rob, Worth looking at the link above about it, seems to be a fairly common problem mate

Thanks. The hesitation is a seperate issue to the weird throttle delay which changes with and without ASC, but the hesitation is winding him up too so I've found the thread/petition and forwarded the link to my Spider owning friend.

[Arese]

RicksAlfas said:

That's a funny one Rob. What engine has he got? Does it have the electronic Q2 diff?

The Q2 is mechanical is it not?

[RicksAlfas]

Arese said:

RicksAlfas said:

That's a funny one Rob. What engine has he got? Does it have the electronic Q2 diff?

The Q2 is mechanical is it not?

The mechanical Q2 is a mechanical LSD - that's the one that can be retro-fitted to some of the older cars.
The newer (2008 on) Q2 is electronic and works by braking the spinning inside wheel and transferring power to the opposite wheel.

[Arese]

RicksAlfas said:

Arese said:

RicksAlfas said:

That's a funny one Rob. What engine has he got? Does it have the electronic Q2 diff?

The Q2 is mechanical is it not?

The mechanical Q2 is a mechanical LSD - that's the one that can be retro-fitted to some of the older cars.
The newer (2008 on) Q2 is electronic and works by braking the spinning inside wheel and transferring power to the opposite wheel.

Ahh, I didn't know that, cheers.

[jamieboy]

RicksAlfas said:

Unfortunately the 2.2 is not one of Alfa's finest moments

Very diplomatically put.

[300bhp/ton]

RobM77 said:

A friend of mine just showed me something in his Alfa Spider. ASC off and car in normal mode there's a noticeable throttle delay - perhaps 0.5 to 0.75 seconds between pressing the pedal and the engine responding. Obviously most modern cars do this, so there's nothing new there, however turn ASC off and this delay is roughly halved - it's really noticeable. Does ASC really take that much away from the ECU in processing power? I tried the same trick in my Z4C a few weeks ago when my friend mentioned this to me and there's absolutely no discernable difference in the delay between DSC and and off. Weird eh? What is my BMW doing differently to his Alfa? Surely these systems are all roughly the same in basic design principle?

Oh, and the other weird thing is that when you're braking the Alfa won't allow throttle blips to change down using heel and toe, but if you turn ASC off then it does.

I think it's so it makes a bigger "feel" and driving difference between the mods, so one is more dumbed down on purpose.

[Twincam16]

RicksAlfas said:

10 Pence Short said:

In 1972, a cracked commando was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune.
If you have a throttle delay problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire... RobM77.

Rob, if your mate doesn't mind spending a bit he could try the Magoletsi Modification 4:
http://www.mangoletsi.com/alfa/special-offers/perf...

Unfortunately the 2.2 is not one of Alfa's finest moments, which probably explains why they no longer make it.

To be fair, it isn't really one af Alfa's 'moments' at all, rather a GM engine with an Alfa-engineered cylinder head.

The next generation of TBI MultiAir units (especially the 1750) are happily banishing most bad memories of the 2.2 for Alfisti

[jamieboy]

Twincam16 said:

The next generation of TBI MultiAir units (especially the 1750) are happily banishing most bad memories of the 2.2 for Alfisti

That's true, it's just a real shame that the mid-range petrol, the engine that should have sold the most units for the 159, and the entry-level for the Brera and Spider, was so poor. It put me off, and I was more than prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt, who knows how many other potential buyers walked away at least partly due to the 2.2.

Fortunately, it looks like the Giulietta will have a better range of engines from day one.