advice on what to do car-wise

[E21_Ross]

Right guys, this may turn out to be a long one so here goes...

I'm contemplating changing my E21 in the summer for a BMW E34 525i manual. i need your advice on whether i should do this or not.

thing is, my E21 will need a general service in the summer (£200-£250), it also could do with a new radiator, although this is not urgent as the car does run absolutely fine and doesn't over heat, the coolant temp just sits a few needles' width past the 1/2 way mark on the temp gauge than it should. this would be about another £200. there are minor patches of rust on a wing which will need to be sorted (£150?) and the wheels on there at the moment are st and i hate them, and would like these 15" BBS alloys i have to go on the car (£250-300)

so....the car would ideally need at least £900 without anything else going wrong.

the thing is though, none of it is urgent and the car does run absolutely fine, and starts first time every time. the snow over the winter didn't phase the nearly 30year old car at all, it was left for 2 weeks at some point, but i went to start it, first turn of the key it shot into life fine.

E21 prices are on the up, and mine is certainly one of the better examples out there, no question about it, and going by current prices i think i'd get about £1500 or so for it. so....if i were to sell, i'd have £1500 PLUS the £900-1k i would have used for servicing. a good 525i goes for about £1500 also, leaving me a lot of money for servicing it.


the reason i would like an E34 is i like the styling, i like it's sound track, mix of economy and power. it's a good cruiser (i've been in 2 now) and comfy.

but....i really do love the E21 and think i would really regret selling it in the long run. the care is rare, in the last 20,000 miles driving it, i can't recall seeing another on the road. i've seen a couple parked up, most looking sorry for themselves though. i love the rarity factor, i regularly get thumbs up from other older BMW drivers, or people driving any older car to be honest. i really do love the car. thing is, i want more power and better brakes. already on a 525i. and a big brakes conversion and decent engine upgrade costs a few £1000.

decisions. what ya reckon guys.

could it be E34_ross in the future?

[lodgy]

dont sell it mate! i had an e30 and sold it 12 months ago and then spent 11 of those months regretting it (bought another last week ) the e21's are climbing in value and are getting hard to find in good condition. spend the money needed, enjoy the drive and the looks from passers by

[aka_kerrly]

i would much rather a E21 over a e34. Even with the extra power id have thought the smaller E21 is going to be loads more entertaining. As you say they are pretty rare to, ive looked at them a couple of times as there is a gold 323i living near me that comes out a few times a month and another 316i sat about looking close to death.

Have you thought about finding a dirt cheap 6cylinder BMW for a engine conversion. £1k for a engine conversion has got to be a better way than spending half that servicing the existing engine and getting a new rad.

dave

[Baltic Trait]

E21_Ross said:

decisions. what ya reckon guys

You could do even better and buy a Mercedes?

Edited by Baltic Trait on Wednesday 28th April 09:42

[E21_Ross]

you are both right, with only a weedy 112bhp the 316 (standard at 90bhp but the weber carb did wonders on the dyno!) it is still a right hoot to drive. i keep thinking about changing, then i get back in the E21 and i wonder why i'd want to sell it, one thing i will admit is that it does have bags and bags of character. not the best car for a passenger, but it is fun to drive.

engine upgrades, there are a few options, an M20 6 pot is the easiest, but i want something better. 6 cylinder-wise there is the M50 from a 525i with vanos or, even harder job, M52 2.8 from 328i, this though requires a custom designed sump guard (and maybe even a different sump IIRC), and added with a big brakes kit, is a £5k job. another peach of an upgrade would be an E30 318is M42, 140bhp as standard, easily tuned to about 160bhp and is the lightest of the bunch. i would like a 6 pot though for the noise

and i can't afford £5k at the moment, but a 525i comes with a 6 pot. there is no way i could tackle an engine conversion myself, would get these guys to do it:

http://www.fritzsbits.co.uk/

they work on older beemers all the time and do plenty of engine conversions.
FWIW here are some pics of my E21, and the wheels i want to go on there....













i just want more power. the E21 tops out at about 110 (gps)

[E21_Ross]

Baltic Trait said:

E21_Ross said:

decisions. what ya reckon guys

You could do even better and buy a Mercedes?

Edited by Baltic Trait on Wednesday 28th April 09:42

don't want anything with a slush box for starters don't like the idea of a manual merc. i like mercs for what they are, they are better than beemers for that, but that's not what i'm after

[cpl_payne]

It's a bit

vs


isn't it? I bet both are great in bed as well as in kitchen, but each one has their strong & weak points

In other words - if you're after comfort e34 is better, if you're after pure driving fun - stick with e21 and modify it.

[E21_Ross]

i'd prefer whoever the 2nd picture is but then....i do like nice food as well

it's a tough call. but i do think i'd miss the charisma of the E21.

[cpl_payne]

E21_Ross said:

i'd prefer whoever the 2nd picture is but then....i do like nice food as well

it's a tough call. but i do think i'd miss the charisma of the E21.

That would be Monica Bellucci.

I'm in a very similar situation to you, except mine is an e30 shed (325i) so it's an even closer call - not much in a way of power upgrade, mostly better condition and more comfort from 5er.

The way I see it both are good choices, you just have to decide what's your priority - fun or practicality.

[aka_kerrly]

i must admit i am not too familiar with the E21 just yet, ive had e30s in the past an quite fancy a e21 with a engine conversion for some retro rwd fun. i think im right in saying the 2.3 straight 6 is the biggest engine to come in e21 from factory, is there any possability of your finding a rotten 323 to transfer everything over into your shell or finding a 323 in good condition and selling your 316i? Then you would achieve 6cylinders + retro and i bet a 323 interior is nicer to.

dave

[OnTheOverrun]

Stick with the E21 and keep it as original as possible. Far cooler than any other option.

[E21_Ross]

aka_kerrly said:

i must admit i am not too familiar with the E21 just yet, ive had e30s in the past an quite fancy a e21 with a engine conversion for some retro rwd fun. i think im right in saying the 2.3 straight 6 is the biggest engine to come in e21 from factory, is there any possability of your finding a rotten 323 to transfer everything over into your shell or finding a 323 in good condition and selling your 316i? Then you would achieve 6cylinders + retro and i bet a 323 interior is nicer to.

dave

interior-wise, mine has had the front and rear seats from an E30 318is (the sports seats) fitted so my interior is better than a standard 323i. dash-wise they are no different. as said above, i wouldn't want the 2.3 M20 in my car, there are far better options out there. it's only 140bhp anyway so it's not THAT much more powerful than mine, it's only about 1-1.5 seconds quicker to 60 than mine as mine has a shorter diff (3.91 to the 323i 3.45).

good 323i's go for about £3500 these days and that's a bit much to be honest.

it's a tough call. there aren't any 525i's out there now that i'd go for. preferrably i'd like a 525i sport manual, ideally with a leather interior. and i'd pay up to about 2k for it. good service history and non-galactic miles.

[E21_Ross]

OnTheOverrun said:

Stick with the E21 and keep it as original as possible. Far cooler than any other option.

someone i know of has recently converted an E21 which now runs with a 4.4l V8 from an E38 740i.....that's cool

pretty bloody quick too! it's been stripped/caged though, so not an ideal daily driver (which is what my E21 is...my daily)

[E21_Ross]

nobody else have any opinions?

[Shropshiremike]

E21_Ross said:

nobody else have any opinions?

Your E21 looks in good nick - I enjoyed my old one but it was a 323i. My choice would be to keep it and get a poky 6-cylinder engine - my 323i taught me a lot about car handling in a relatively short space of time

[cushT]

That's a lovely car you have there & well worthy of the impending spends imo. A car of that age should be considered a hobby, that way the spend doesn't matter

As for changing it, for me it would depend on how long i had owned the e21 & weather or not i was getting a bit bored of it. You can't keep the same car forever, thats just boring! So if you do fancy a change I would recommend getting a car that you feel would equal or better the e21. Otherwise you could end up regretting the sale.
An e34 wouldn't feel as special i'm sure.

[The Black Duke]

Keep the e21... SIMPLES!!!

[E21_Ross]

cushT said:

That's a lovely car you have there & well worthy of the impending spends imo. A car of that age should be considered a hobby, that way the spend doesn't matter

As for changing it, for me it would depend on how long i had owned the e21 & weather or not i was getting a bit bored of it. You can't keep the same car forever, thats just boring! So if you do fancy a change I would recommend getting a car that you feel would equal or better the e21. Otherwise you could end up regretting the sale.
An e34 wouldn't feel as special i'm sure.

i've owned it for 2 years now (well, in another 3weeks). i'm not getting bored of it, it's such good fun to drive, i just yearn for it to have another 40-50bhp and better brakes is all. i think i get your point, i don't think an E34 would feel as "special". sure, it's the "better" car technically by leaps and bounds but i don't think it has the charisma of a proper retro bmw.

think i'll leave it as it is now, get those wheels on the car and keep servicing it; then when i can afford it i'll shove another engine in there, along with a wilwoods brake kit. last time i went to fritz's bits they had an E21 down there (not as nice condition as mine) and they had just finished fitting an E36 328i engine in it, with an uprated ECU, one of their custom stainless exhaust systems and something else, and a wilwoods brake kit. was dyno'd at 246bhp

that in an E21 would be rather scary.

one thing i do love is the rarity. one thing i don't love is the feeling every now and again that something will soon break, even if i have no reason to think that because the car is driving absolutely fine it's done 580 miles in a day before without any problems though

thing is though, even with an E34 it's still going to be the age where long term "wear and tear" items need replacing. i've done most of that stuff in the E21 now and have modded it quite nicely. will have to see if i can dig out a piccy of the seats i put in there. sadly, no pics of the old ones....but they were well and truly st.

edit: this is the only pic i have and it's pretty st tbh (and yes....the carpet needs a hoover )

Edited by E21_Ross on Wednesday 28th April 21:33

[cushT]

That's lovely

Have you thought about buying a complete donor car for a bigger engine & brakes etc? If you play your cards right & sell on all the parts you don't need, including ex e21 bits, you could end up with a free conversion. Providing you are handy with a spanner of course.

As for the e34 you are right, it will almost certainly require a similar amount of money spent on it.

Edited by cushT on Wednesday 28th April 21:42

[Marquis_Rex]

Many years ago, when insurance premiums rocketed, I was looking to trade in my old E21 323i, the contenders were an Alfa Romeo 75 1.8 litre, And Alfa GTV6 and an Alfa Sud.
Fortunately I managed to keep the BMW instead. Years later I ended up owning an alfa 75 3 litre, along side my E21- boy am I glad that back then I never succumbed REPLACING my beloved E21 with that nast Arese Rot Box!

Sorry but an E34 is compared to an E21 IMO.