So I almost bought a z4....talk me into a boxster S please..
Discussion
I posted at the end of last year looking for a 2nd fun car. I am now off the cigs for almost a year, have saved both the cig money and my surplus every month and have my 10 grand to spend.
After consideration of many factors I decided to go z4 3.0i. (I really wanted boxster S but couldnt cope with the fear of IMS).
Now the Z4 was reasonably priced and I thought was a bit option free so went in at a cheeky price. I fully expected to get it...but we couldn't agree. This meant the price would almost be in boxster S territory.....now this little demon was back on my shoulder.....
My fear is IMS. I know that the 'net will have blown all fears out of proportion BUT I am worried. The better half is ok with me getting me a 2nd car but would go ballistic if it needed an engine rebuild at silly money. Its not that I'm scared of her you realise.....
Now, can you upgrade the IMS to reduce/eliminate the risk? (It appears you can in the States through LN?)What would be the cost?
If it does go is it financial suicide? I know this topic has been covered many times but I cant find the exact answer. So apologies if this question was asked recently.
Before any one starts saying get x or y or even z, I have narrowed the choice down to the sensible Z4 or the more exciting, better handling and ever so slightly faster boxster S of a 99/00 vintage. But with the worry of her cheating with the bank manager......
Convince me my head and heart can meet on the boxster S please.Put my mind at rest that the reliability worries can be eased!
I'm also in the Lake district if any one has a nice Boxster S with stability control for sale who fancies a trip to some great driving roads over the weekend!!
After consideration of many factors I decided to go z4 3.0i. (I really wanted boxster S but couldnt cope with the fear of IMS).
Now the Z4 was reasonably priced and I thought was a bit option free so went in at a cheeky price. I fully expected to get it...but we couldn't agree. This meant the price would almost be in boxster S territory.....now this little demon was back on my shoulder.....
My fear is IMS. I know that the 'net will have blown all fears out of proportion BUT I am worried. The better half is ok with me getting me a 2nd car but would go ballistic if it needed an engine rebuild at silly money. Its not that I'm scared of her you realise.....
Now, can you upgrade the IMS to reduce/eliminate the risk? (It appears you can in the States through LN?)What would be the cost?
If it does go is it financial suicide? I know this topic has been covered many times but I cant find the exact answer. So apologies if this question was asked recently.
Before any one starts saying get x or y or even z, I have narrowed the choice down to the sensible Z4 or the more exciting, better handling and ever so slightly faster boxster S of a 99/00 vintage. But with the worry of her cheating with the bank manager......
Convince me my head and heart can meet on the boxster S please.Put my mind at rest that the reliability worries can be eased!
I'm also in the Lake district if any one has a nice Boxster S with stability control for sale who fancies a trip to some great driving roads over the weekend!!
theres a couple of options
some people pop the oil seal out when its next having a clutch , so that the engine oil lubes it
or you can get a retro fit kit thats a better bearing and new bolts , i still dont think its 100% bullet proof though , plus theres other bits that can fail
hartech posts on the porsche section..seems to talk sense , you could consider their maintence plan that covers alot of the expense if things go wrong
some people pop the oil seal out when its next having a clutch , so that the engine oil lubes it
or you can get a retro fit kit thats a better bearing and new bolts , i still dont think its 100% bullet proof though , plus theres other bits that can fail
hartech posts on the porsche section..seems to talk sense , you could consider their maintence plan that covers alot of the expense if things go wrong
Edited by steveo3002 on Thursday 29th April 20:52
I ended up buying the Z4.
Fast enough, does 32mpg+, decent boot space, looks decent. I have had it for one year. Zero problems..
I avoided the Boxster due to major engine problems and RMS problems. Plus it looks dated. Plus i am gunning for a 911 at some point in the future..
Your choice..
The Z4 does have a hard ride. I changed the RFT's. Yes it does rattle...but so what..it puts a smile on my face everyday..
I dont care what anyone says. The slew of porsches in my brother in laws garage over the years for IMS/RMS issues scared the sh!t outta me. He absolutely told me to avoid them. When they are working though superb car...
Fast enough, does 32mpg+, decent boot space, looks decent. I have had it for one year. Zero problems..
I avoided the Boxster due to major engine problems and RMS problems. Plus it looks dated. Plus i am gunning for a 911 at some point in the future..
Your choice..
The Z4 does have a hard ride. I changed the RFT's. Yes it does rattle...but so what..it puts a smile on my face everyday..
I dont care what anyone says. The slew of porsches in my brother in laws garage over the years for IMS/RMS issues scared the sh!t outta me. He absolutely told me to avoid them. When they are working though superb car...
Edited by StinkyBoy on Thursday 29th April 20:54
The 2 big internet faults with the 986 Boxster are IMS and RMS. Looking into this it appears that regular servicing can spot signs of these early and can help prevent problems.
IMO if you can afford regular servicing and look after it a boxster would be a great ownership proposition. There are also some very good warranties around that often require a thorough service/inspection to be accepted onto but give huge peace of mind.
The Z4 Oversteers more easily but if you're going sideways you're losing time
IMO if you can afford regular servicing and look after it a boxster would be a great ownership proposition. There are also some very good warranties around that often require a thorough service/inspection to be accepted onto but give huge peace of mind.
The Z4 Oversteers more easily but if you're going sideways you're losing time
Edited by Chris_w666 on Thursday 29th April 20:53
If your after something for around 10k then you're actually pretty safe (safer) from IMS. The reason being that it is generally considered that if an engine has got to 40k with no issues, then the IMS is unlikely to fail - not unheard of, but most of them appear to have 'gone' before the 40k mark.
I bought a Boxster S last year over a Z4 & I absolutely LOVE it.
I bought a Boxster S last year over a Z4 & I absolutely LOVE it.
i had a 2000 boxster s a few years ago, did 16k in it in 9 months. By far the best car i've ever had. I had no IMS or RMS issues although i was concerned. I have promised myself another as a weekend toy when i can afford it and have a garage to keep it in.
Go for the boxster, you only live once.
Go for the boxster, you only live once.
If you haven't tried it, have a butchers on www.BoXa.net , they are a very helpful bunch & know their Porsche onions.
Buy one that has had the RMS done recently and you'll be fine. My only issue is I wouldnt buy less than the 3.2, and 10k is a struggle to get a nice one.
If you can live with Savannah: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1634233.htm
I found the legroom lacking in the Boxster, and the 986 is really dated inside now.
3.0 Z4 is possibly a safer bet, and you can get a lower mileage/younger car for the money.
Nice car, even has Nav: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1637372.htm
or
Only 30,000 miles http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1561504.htm
If you can live with Savannah: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1634233.htm
I found the legroom lacking in the Boxster, and the 986 is really dated inside now.
3.0 Z4 is possibly a safer bet, and you can get a lower mileage/younger car for the money.
Nice car, even has Nav: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1637372.htm
or
Only 30,000 miles http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1561504.htm
Quite a good thread on IMS & RMS here: http://www.boxa.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=4456...
Forgot to mention that IMS also appears to be VERY rare on the tiptronic Boxsters.
Forgot to mention that IMS also appears to be VERY rare on the tiptronic Boxsters.
Shoot me down if you wish, but I would buy neither at that price. I had one of the early Z4s and it was easily the worst (American) built PoS I have ever had to endure - and that from someone who has driven some real s
te over the years. Completely and utterly unreliable, and then when it did break down (often) you had to endure the worst dealer network this side of Alfa. They might have got better in later years, but that put me off for life - and I loved my BMs before that. Windows, hoods, ingnition coils, seats, badges, wheels, CD, all had to be replaced in years 1 and 2, most twice, coils thrice....
It was lovely to drive once RFTs' were changed, horrible before that. Ensure you drive it on a bumpy road.
The Boxter has always left me a touch cold - only recently has it discovered real speed - it was always a great handler, but never that fast IMO. Certainly earlier 10K cars are really not that fast - clearly a great drive, but don't expect to be anything other than shamed by hot Clios, etc.
At that price point, I'd go for something else, say an early 350Z roadster (have they got that cheap yet?), or a TVR, or something....
Anyway, ignore me, you're lucky to have something to spend on a fun car - so buy what feels right and enjoy!
te over the years. Completely and utterly unreliable, and then when it did break down (often) you had to endure the worst dealer network this side of Alfa. They might have got better in later years, but that put me off for life - and I loved my BMs before that. Windows, hoods, ingnition coils, seats, badges, wheels, CD, all had to be replaced in years 1 and 2, most twice, coils thrice....It was lovely to drive once RFTs' were changed, horrible before that. Ensure you drive it on a bumpy road.
The Boxter has always left me a touch cold - only recently has it discovered real speed - it was always a great handler, but never that fast IMO. Certainly earlier 10K cars are really not that fast - clearly a great drive, but don't expect to be anything other than shamed by hot Clios, etc.
At that price point, I'd go for something else, say an early 350Z roadster (have they got that cheap yet?), or a TVR, or something....
Anyway, ignore me, you're lucky to have something to spend on a fun car - so buy what feels right and enjoy!
I'm guessing you aren't looking at the 987, but I'm sure most of this will apply to the 986 too.
IMS - Still an issue - Dad's 987 had its IMS write off the engine when it was 3 years 6 months old iirc, fortunately despite no extended warranty, because of the nature of the fault Porsche picked up most (all?) of the cost. That said the car in question had only done 24 ish thousand miles - so not the 70-100k that you seem to be looking at.
Tyres - Not cheap, and tend not to last too long. You can do them cheaper, but the Pilot Sports have been replaced by the Pilot Sport 3s, and they are fairly expensive. Some suppliers have tried fitting Pilot Primacys, but they aren't all that, and afaik, not Porsche approved.
Servicing - the 987 went to longer service intervals, but the 986 still needs yearly services. Prices vary, good independent seem to be fine, especially at this age where warranty isn't a concern.
Warranties - two approaches - if you are confident about the car you've purchased stick the money in an ISA, if you worry someone posted a good option, I don't think Porsche warranties can be taken out at this stage, unless you find one with a warranty already on it?
Anyway, enjoy if/when you find one - Evo and most of the car mags still rate them very highly, the only thing that has dated on the 986 is the interior, and even that isn't that bad.
IMS - Still an issue - Dad's 987 had its IMS write off the engine when it was 3 years 6 months old iirc, fortunately despite no extended warranty, because of the nature of the fault Porsche picked up most (all?) of the cost. That said the car in question had only done 24 ish thousand miles - so not the 70-100k that you seem to be looking at.
Tyres - Not cheap, and tend not to last too long. You can do them cheaper, but the Pilot Sports have been replaced by the Pilot Sport 3s, and they are fairly expensive. Some suppliers have tried fitting Pilot Primacys, but they aren't all that, and afaik, not Porsche approved.
Servicing - the 987 went to longer service intervals, but the 986 still needs yearly services. Prices vary, good independent seem to be fine, especially at this age where warranty isn't a concern.
Warranties - two approaches - if you are confident about the car you've purchased stick the money in an ISA, if you worry someone posted a good option, I don't think Porsche warranties can be taken out at this stage, unless you find one with a warranty already on it?
Anyway, enjoy if/when you find one - Evo and most of the car mags still rate them very highly, the only thing that has dated on the 986 is the interior, and even that isn't that bad.
I said no x or y or z's....... but the 350z is quite a nice car.... uglier than an ugly thing on an ugly day. Suit me perfectly!
I don't really want to get into yet another what car thread but its a fair comment and a good choice. I have to admit I didnt try one before viewing the z4's and boxsters.
I don't really want to get into yet another what car thread but its a fair comment and a good choice. I have to admit I didnt try one before viewing the z4's and boxsters.
I'm not too concerned about general running costs and servicing as it will do (relatively) few miles. Prob <6k a year. Therefore tyres and consumables will average out to equal the a6 3.0tdi I have as daily driver at the moment. (and therefore hidden from the better half!)Its the IMS that seems to destroy an engine resulting in £1000's in rebuild costs.
paulcockermouth said:
The cars at that price seem to be 70 to 100k miles....can anybody else support this theory of higher mileage reduces the risk? It sounds reasonable and compelling to me!!
I guess you have been over to the Porsche forum and checked out the topic about these issues pinned to the top. Also go to: http://www.hartech.org/ and have a browse at his buyers guides, he is a very knowledgeable engineer!I bought a Boxster S a year ago on a Y plate. Just had a new clutch (old clutch was heavy with a high biting point) put in it at 56k miles and had a major service carried out at the same time.
Like you I'd read the horror stories online and was a little sceptical about the ownership experience. I had the specialist check the RMS while they did the work and it was fine - "no point in disturbing it" were his words. He reckoned that sometimes if they are replaced for the sake of it, they can give you more trouble.
I've spent a bit on it since I've had it: New discs + pads all round (£700), Mass air flow sensor, Lambda sensor, four wheel alignment (£800 for all three), then the clutch (£630), major service (£370).
All the work was done at Independant Porsche specialists and it's just to give you an idea of running costs.
Do your homework on them, they can be expensive to run as I have found, but it's nicely sorted now.
Touch wood, all I've got ahead of me now is regular servicing and I can really enjoy it this Summer...
Oh, and I wouldn't bother with the stability management. Mine hasn't got it and I've never felt the need for it. There's plenty of grip and when it does let go it's very controllable even though I'm far from an expert driver.
The IMS issue is also blown out of proportion I reckon. It would seem people love a good scare-story!
Get a good one and you really won't be disappointed. I don't begrudge a penny I've spent on mine - I love it!
A pic.
Like you I'd read the horror stories online and was a little sceptical about the ownership experience. I had the specialist check the RMS while they did the work and it was fine - "no point in disturbing it" were his words. He reckoned that sometimes if they are replaced for the sake of it, they can give you more trouble.
I've spent a bit on it since I've had it: New discs + pads all round (£700), Mass air flow sensor, Lambda sensor, four wheel alignment (£800 for all three), then the clutch (£630), major service (£370).
All the work was done at Independant Porsche specialists and it's just to give you an idea of running costs.
Do your homework on them, they can be expensive to run as I have found, but it's nicely sorted now.
Touch wood, all I've got ahead of me now is regular servicing and I can really enjoy it this Summer...
Oh, and I wouldn't bother with the stability management. Mine hasn't got it and I've never felt the need for it. There's plenty of grip and when it does let go it's very controllable even though I'm far from an expert driver.
The IMS issue is also blown out of proportion I reckon. It would seem people love a good scare-story!
Get a good one and you really won't be disappointed. I don't begrudge a penny I've spent on mine - I love it!
A pic.
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