Cars getting heavier, bigger?
Discussion
Why is this?
Didn't we resist this US trend for decades?
They were driving boats about, we had minis.
Now we have veritable behemoths being used to pick up groceries.
Heavier vehicles produce more CO2 (all other things being equal), cause more wear to the road, take further to stop (all other things being equal), carry more kinetic energy in crashes, use more aluminium, steel to build etc.
Didn't we resist this US trend for decades?
They were driving boats about, we had minis.
Now we have veritable behemoths being used to pick up groceries.
Heavier vehicles produce more CO2 (all other things being equal), cause more wear to the road, take further to stop (all other things being equal), carry more kinetic energy in crashes, use more aluminium, steel to build etc.
Safety and refinement coupled with a more competitive market. People want to pay the same or less for a car that's safer and more refined than the same car was ten years ago. Lightweight technology, such as used in the Elise, comes at a price. However, Lotus recently announced that its possible to reduce weight by 35% for only a 5% increase in cost, or something like that.
Environmental legislation will bring weight down, but it's such a shame that it's happened so late that it's environmental legislation forcing it, which may hamper the development of performance cars around this platform. If the 3 series still weighed 1300kg, we'd have one hell of an M3 with the 400bhp V8!
Instead we've got a 1750kg luxo barge.
Environmental legislation will bring weight down, but it's such a shame that it's happened so late that it's environmental legislation forcing it, which may hamper the development of performance cars around this platform. If the 3 series still weighed 1300kg, we'd have one hell of an M3 with the 400bhp V8!
Instead we've got a 1750kg luxo barge.SmoothRB said:
DrTre said:
safety
Sure but heavier cars carry more kinetic energy also, so it's even worse when two collide.I bet a light car with a cage and 3 point harnesses would be safer that an SUV.
ExPat2B said:
SmoothRB said:
DrTre said:
safety
Sure but heavier cars carry more kinetic energy also, so it's even worse when two collide.I bet a light car with a cage and 3 point harnesses would be safer that an SUV.
Anyway, I thought safety mattered?
Cars are "safer" in that they have a better chance of occupant survival in a collision. Cars also have reduced visibility now and need bigger brakes due to increased weight.
A caged sportscar may survive a crash into another caged sportscar but a modern 4x4 would pummel it in my opinion. The height of the front bumper alone would probably take your head clean off.
A caged sportscar may survive a crash into another caged sportscar but a modern 4x4 would pummel it in my opinion. The height of the front bumper alone would probably take your head clean off.
rhinochopig said:
As a car owning population we're getting fatter, taller, and broader.
We are, but I think that has relatively little to do with it. A normal person can still drive a 1930s Austin Seven, or a Smart.The answer (as mentioned above) is safety predominantly, but I think NVH concerns and ever rising levels of equipment also play their part.
We are finally seeing them getting lighter again now though.
I think its different. I think the change is that steel is no longer the main cost component of a car.
as cars get more technical, the base chassis, be it 6' long or 12' long has a cost that makes up a fairly small proportion of the new car cost - instead the majority of the cost goes into R&D, technology, and soft-touch surfaces. You can see this as a massive korean MPV costs less than a little BMW.
Just what I think, anyway
as cars get more technical, the base chassis, be it 6' long or 12' long has a cost that makes up a fairly small proportion of the new car cost - instead the majority of the cost goes into R&D, technology, and soft-touch surfaces. You can see this as a massive korean MPV costs less than a little BMW.
Just what I think, anyway
ShadownINja said:
ArtVandelay said:
in my opinion.
But is it a valid opinion? Do you work for MIRA, for instance? 
With the weight of a modern car versus a light sports car (I was thinking Discovery vs Caterham) the 4x4 weighs over 4 times as much. Video here of Audi Q7 vs a Fiat 500. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pVF1Wr7GLQ
Whilst I know the 500 doesn't have a cage, I'd imagine it has more in the way of crumple zones than a sports car
My opinion is usually bulls
t though, so feel free to disprove me i was always under the impression that safety is one reason and the other is manufactures asking focus groups to rate the old car and ask them "how could we improve it" and the standard answer is "a little bit bigger, a few more storage compartments and perhaps a bit more leg room and a bigger boot"
Now what a manufacturer should be saying is buy one of our larger models but instead they bulk up the smaller model and then end up having to introduce a smaller model to replace the larger one EG the current VW Polo is bigger than a mk3 golf and a Fox is still bigger than a mk4 Polo.
Dave
Now what a manufacturer should be saying is buy one of our larger models but instead they bulk up the smaller model and then end up having to introduce a smaller model to replace the larger one EG the current VW Polo is bigger than a mk3 golf and a Fox is still bigger than a mk4 Polo.
Dave
ArtVandelay said:
ShadownINja said:
ArtVandelay said:
in my opinion.
But is it a valid opinion? Do you work for MIRA, for instance? With the weight of a modern car versus a light sports car (I was thinking Discovery vs Caterham) the 4x4 weighs over 4 times as much. Video here of Audi Q7 vs a Fiat 500. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pVF1Wr7GLQ
Whilst I know the 500 doesn't have a cage, I'd imagine it has more in the way of crumple zones than a sports car
My opinion is usually bullst though, so feel free to disprove me Are they actually heavier or is it just a perception that goes with the increase in size?
I just picked the 5 series as an example as this car has increased in dimension over time quite considerably.
E34 525i - 1584kg
E39 525i - 1575kg
E60 525i - 1475kg
They were getting lighter until...
The F10 - starting at 1700kg
I just picked the 5 series as an example as this car has increased in dimension over time quite considerably.
E34 525i - 1584kg
E39 525i - 1575kg
E60 525i - 1475kg
They were getting lighter until...
The F10 - starting at 1700kg
ShadownINja said:
ArtVandelay said:
ShadownINja said:
ArtVandelay said:
in my opinion.
But is it a valid opinion? Do you work for MIRA, for instance? With the weight of a modern car versus a light sports car (I was thinking Discovery vs Caterham) the 4x4 weighs over 4 times as much. Video here of Audi Q7 vs a Fiat 500. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pVF1Wr7GLQ
Whilst I know the 500 doesn't have a cage, I'd imagine it has more in the way of crumple zones than a sports car
My opinion is usually bullst though, so feel free to disprove me Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff