Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta
Discussion
Chaps, just a note on these (and I know I typoed the title - should be "Vredestein"
They have replaced the Pirelli P-Zeros on my Morgan. And have utterly cured it from its understeer to snap oversteer, tramlining and gliding on oil wet weather performance.
To be fair the Pirellis were half worn - but even when new were not brilliant. Changing them because the car stopped being something I felt I could trust when on them.
The Ultracs are stonking, though. Better than any other tyre I have tried on this car or the 968 I owned before it. And got to do some wet weather testing last weekend (unintentionally). Performance was fantastic - car felt planted, braking was good, no longer had to drive as if the back was going to let go at any minute (although progress was rather slower than in the dry for obvious reasons).
Cornering feedback is pretty nice actually - must be something to do with the sidewalls, but despite feeling quite a lot of grip and a tiny amount of give as the car settles into the corner, there's also very good feedback and you seem to be able to tell exactly what the loaded tyre is doing and where it wants to go, with great precision. The Pirellis by contrast would not grip as well and feedback felt a little hit-and-miss; was actually worse when they were newer.
Loving this tyre. Haven't yet tried it in proper anger as was scrubbing them in a bit over the weekend (that was my excuse for being in the car constantly, obviously). Awesome looking thing too - only problem was that it was a bit hard to find a set. When I did, the 225 18 40's I bought were £350 the set of 4. Which is pretty good value, I think...about the same as a set of Falken FK452s which are budget performance tyres (that were good on my TVR - but nothing like as good as these Vredesteins)
Normally wouldn't post about tyres - but my car feels completely different, and in every way good; and these things were surprisingly cheap. Disadvantage though is that they feel quite soft, a bit like Toyo Proxes T1s etc: no idea how long they'll last, but may be a bit soft; payback for the advantages may be early replacement...
If you have a light, rear drive sportscar with a tendency for oversteer, these will suit you just fine. Not sure how they'sll fare on something heavier, though...
They have replaced the Pirelli P-Zeros on my Morgan. And have utterly cured it from its understeer to snap oversteer, tramlining and gliding on oil wet weather performance.
To be fair the Pirellis were half worn - but even when new were not brilliant. Changing them because the car stopped being something I felt I could trust when on them.
The Ultracs are stonking, though. Better than any other tyre I have tried on this car or the 968 I owned before it. And got to do some wet weather testing last weekend (unintentionally). Performance was fantastic - car felt planted, braking was good, no longer had to drive as if the back was going to let go at any minute (although progress was rather slower than in the dry for obvious reasons).
Cornering feedback is pretty nice actually - must be something to do with the sidewalls, but despite feeling quite a lot of grip and a tiny amount of give as the car settles into the corner, there's also very good feedback and you seem to be able to tell exactly what the loaded tyre is doing and where it wants to go, with great precision. The Pirellis by contrast would not grip as well and feedback felt a little hit-and-miss; was actually worse when they were newer.
Loving this tyre. Haven't yet tried it in proper anger as was scrubbing them in a bit over the weekend (that was my excuse for being in the car constantly, obviously). Awesome looking thing too - only problem was that it was a bit hard to find a set. When I did, the 225 18 40's I bought were £350 the set of 4. Which is pretty good value, I think...about the same as a set of Falken FK452s which are budget performance tyres (that were good on my TVR - but nothing like as good as these Vredesteins)
Normally wouldn't post about tyres - but my car feels completely different, and in every way good; and these things were surprisingly cheap. Disadvantage though is that they feel quite soft, a bit like Toyo Proxes T1s etc: no idea how long they'll last, but may be a bit soft; payback for the advantages may be early replacement...
If you have a light, rear drive sportscar with a tendency for oversteer, these will suit you just fine. Not sure how they'sll fare on something heavier, though...
Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 5th May 11:12
The Ultrac Sessentas are pretty much universally loved and they placed a close second to the Eagle F1 A in the 2007 evo tyre test. I wouldn't worry about wear too much, people seem to be getting reasonable mileage out of them (compared to grip / performance)
That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
jon- said:
The Ultrac Sessentas are pretty much universally loved and they placed a close second to the Eagle F1 A in the 2007 evo tyre test. I wouldn't worry about wear too much, people seem to be getting reasonable mileage out of them (compared to grip / performance)
That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
Jon - interesting; especially as in that test the P-Zero comes second; a tyre that I will never buy again after their woeful performance on my car (they were originally fitted by Morgan - but every dealer recommends swapping them out at tyre change time).That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
Just shows that tyres must vary from car to car so much - the Morgan runs rose jointed suspension with very little if any camber, and this sort of setup must suit the Vredestein, but not the Pirelli. Or something.
Whatever it is, liking these a lot. Cornering speeds are seriously better, even without having tried her on a track.
danrc said:
My friend has a set on his a4 and doesn't like them. He used to have the goodyear f1 eagles and feels the Vredsteins don't have as much feel or grip. His is a big heavy 3.0 v6 so it's maybe that they just don't like big heavy motors.
Interesting - as I said, I feel them "give" in the corners which works very well on my car (1050kg), as it feels like the car bites in. If that's due to a softer sidewall, I can see that give becoming something more akin to barge-like handling on something a lot heavier and front wheel drive...danrc said:
My friend has a set on his a4 and doesn't like them. He used to have the goodyear f1 eagles and feels the Vredsteins don't have as much feel or grip. His is a big heavy 3.0 v6 so it's maybe that they just don't like big heavy motors.
Strange. A lot of guys over on the M3 Cutters forum have fitted these recently and report good things. Would think the E46 weighs about the same as a 3.0 A4? I'm considering them when my new wheels turn up.Harry Flashman said:
danrc said:
My friend has a set on his a4 and doesn't like them. He used to have the goodyear f1 eagles and feels the Vredsteins don't have as much feel or grip. His is a big heavy 3.0 v6 so it's maybe that they just don't like big heavy motors.
Interesting - as I said, I feel them "give" in the corners which works very well on my car (1050kg), as it feels like the car bites in. If that's due to a softer sidewall, I can see that give becoming something more akin to barge-like handling on something a lot heavier and front wheel drive...
I have heard nothing but good reports about them before my friend got them. I must admit when I had a shot of his car it felt planted and responsive. The goodyears did provide massive ammounts of grip though.
Harry Flashman said:
jon- said:
The Ultrac Sessentas are pretty much universally loved and they placed a close second to the Eagle F1 A in the 2007 evo tyre test. I wouldn't worry about wear too much, people seem to be getting reasonable mileage out of them (compared to grip / performance)
That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
Jon - interesting; especially as in that test the P-Zero comes second; a tyre that I will never buy again after their woeful performance on my car (they were originally fitted by Morgan - but every dealer recommends swapping them out at tyre change time).That said, the very same Eagle F1 only placed 5th in the 2010 Autobild Ultra High performance tyre test so if the tests were like for like, that means things have moved on (that's not to say Vredestein haven't improved the ultra via compounding).
Just shows that tyres must vary from car to car so much - the Morgan runs rose jointed suspension with very little if any camber, and this sort of setup must suit the Vredestein, but not the Pirelli. Or something.
Whatever it is, liking these a lot. Cornering speeds are seriously better, even without having tried her on a track.
I'm glad you're liking the Ultracs, will be interesting to hear how they perform on track so please update this thread once you've tried
I had a set of these put on the RS6 a few weeks ago to replace my very worn F1 Assyms. They are bloody fantastic in the wet and for day to day 'spirited' driving when dry they are on a par with the F1's. When really pushing on though there is less feel than the F1's and they can feel a little 'floaty'.
The traction in the wet though can't be emphasised enough, they just grip and grip; way beyond what the F1's could cope with!
The traction in the wet though can't be emphasised enough, they just grip and grip; way beyond what the F1's could cope with!
Been a big fan of Vreds on all my heavy fwd V6 cars.
The GTA loves them, but they have lasted 12 months/ 10 k. Still not exactly expensive and i have to say they are absolutely brilliant in the wet.
A68 to Edinburgh in torrential rain - dont think i aquaplaned once. Basically they are a great tyre in the dry. A fantastic tyre in the wet.
Get some !
The GTA loves them, but they have lasted 12 months/ 10 k. Still not exactly expensive and i have to say they are absolutely brilliant in the wet.
A68 to Edinburgh in torrential rain - dont think i aquaplaned once. Basically they are a great tyre in the dry. A fantastic tyre in the wet.
Get some !
HellDiver said:
Those tyre benefit a higher pressure than OE recommendation.
Personally I prefer the original Ultrac, it's a very good tyre too.
Had those on my 968 - they were indeed very good (and very nice looking too) - but I genuinely think that the Sessanta is better. In the wet, by miles.Personally I prefer the original Ultrac, it's a very good tyre too.
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