I bought a HPI clear car... now signs of accident damage.
Discussion
Hi Guys. 
Hoping some of you will be able to help here.
I bought a 2003/53 VW Lupo GTI from a fully authorised Volkswagen main dealer on 12/03/10. It is/was a HPI clear car; and was put through a full VW PDC before I picked it up.
I bought it based on numerous pictures and information send to me via e-mail and I didn’t see the car until collection day. I picked it up just as it was going dusk. Me and my Dad looked round the car and spotted a few minor scratches, but the car had just been polished, and to be honest it looked pretty good for a 7 year old car! I had screwed them right down on price too (£800 off list price) so I wasn’t going to grumble.
However, the excitement of the new car was immediately dampened though when I left the dealer forecourt, accompanied by a coolant warning light on the dash.
The service department had closed as it was getting on for 7pm. With no body around to look at the car, the salesman simply turned the car off and on again. We waited 5mins and the warning light did not re-appear. Convinced that it was a one off problem, he then told me it would be fine to continue on my 2hour drive home.
15 miles down the road, the coolant light came back on again. I pulled over and discovered a brand new bottle of coolant in the boot (coincidence? I think not!). Just so I was 100% covered, I called out the RAC (under the VW assist scheme) and they topped the car up. I got back home with no further problems, and I have to say… I was loving the car.
Upon complaining on the very next day, I was told the car had been fitted with a brand new radiator and they must have forgotten to top it up before collection. OK, I thought... mistakes happen. I was given a £100 cheque for the trouble and I was happy.
So, flash forward to 2 months down the line. I was cleaning the car for the first time over the BH weekend (bad I know!) and I noticed some rust on the drivers side rear wheel arch. I also noticed in the bright sunlight that the rear bumper and lower rear quarter was covered in ‘orange peel’ and in places the paint didn’t even seem to have any metallic flake in it at all. It looked really dull.
So, today I have been to my local VW dealer to get the rust looked at under the 12 year anti-corrosion warranty. This is where the saga starts.
In short, my local dealer told me that they would not touch the car under its warranty. The service rep checked the paint depths and it ranged from 170 through to 280 on ONE PANEL!!! He told me that the rear bumper has been fully re-sprayed, and parts of the rear quarter have too. The more he pointed out the imperfections, the more obvious it became.
So, I got straight onto the phone to the supplying dealer (miles away in Hull). They were really keen to have it checked over by their sister dealership in York, who have a full body shop on site. I arrived there, and the body shop manager came out to look at the car. Obviously he deals with these things everyday but he actually told me its one of the worst repair jobs he has seen.
His assessment was that:
The rear quarter panel is literally FULL of filler
The window seals are all cracked from the previous repair
The rear bumper needs flatting down and polishing or fully repainting
The area around the petrol filler cap is a totally different colour
The drivers door shut line is exaggerated, because they have not re-shaped the rear panel properly.
I’m gutted to say the least. They have promised to get in touch with me tomorrow with plans to repair the car. He thought the above would be around £900 worth of work, but said he’s 99% sure they will agree to cover all costs.
I guess the question is: Where do I stand with all this and what are my rights?
I’m out of the VW 30 day change of mind / cooling off period and the car has no finance, so I can’t even get a finance company involved with the matter.
For those questioning how I never noticed it before now, I have no idea!!!
HELP!
Hoping some of you will be able to help here.
I bought a 2003/53 VW Lupo GTI from a fully authorised Volkswagen main dealer on 12/03/10. It is/was a HPI clear car; and was put through a full VW PDC before I picked it up.
I bought it based on numerous pictures and information send to me via e-mail and I didn’t see the car until collection day. I picked it up just as it was going dusk. Me and my Dad looked round the car and spotted a few minor scratches, but the car had just been polished, and to be honest it looked pretty good for a 7 year old car! I had screwed them right down on price too (£800 off list price) so I wasn’t going to grumble.
However, the excitement of the new car was immediately dampened though when I left the dealer forecourt, accompanied by a coolant warning light on the dash.
The service department had closed as it was getting on for 7pm. With no body around to look at the car, the salesman simply turned the car off and on again. We waited 5mins and the warning light did not re-appear. Convinced that it was a one off problem, he then told me it would be fine to continue on my 2hour drive home.
15 miles down the road, the coolant light came back on again. I pulled over and discovered a brand new bottle of coolant in the boot (coincidence? I think not!). Just so I was 100% covered, I called out the RAC (under the VW assist scheme) and they topped the car up. I got back home with no further problems, and I have to say… I was loving the car.
Upon complaining on the very next day, I was told the car had been fitted with a brand new radiator and they must have forgotten to top it up before collection. OK, I thought... mistakes happen. I was given a £100 cheque for the trouble and I was happy.
So, flash forward to 2 months down the line. I was cleaning the car for the first time over the BH weekend (bad I know!) and I noticed some rust on the drivers side rear wheel arch. I also noticed in the bright sunlight that the rear bumper and lower rear quarter was covered in ‘orange peel’ and in places the paint didn’t even seem to have any metallic flake in it at all. It looked really dull.
So, today I have been to my local VW dealer to get the rust looked at under the 12 year anti-corrosion warranty. This is where the saga starts.
In short, my local dealer told me that they would not touch the car under its warranty. The service rep checked the paint depths and it ranged from 170 through to 280 on ONE PANEL!!! He told me that the rear bumper has been fully re-sprayed, and parts of the rear quarter have too. The more he pointed out the imperfections, the more obvious it became.
So, I got straight onto the phone to the supplying dealer (miles away in Hull). They were really keen to have it checked over by their sister dealership in York, who have a full body shop on site. I arrived there, and the body shop manager came out to look at the car. Obviously he deals with these things everyday but he actually told me its one of the worst repair jobs he has seen.
His assessment was that:
The rear quarter panel is literally FULL of filler
The window seals are all cracked from the previous repair
The rear bumper needs flatting down and polishing or fully repainting
The area around the petrol filler cap is a totally different colour
The drivers door shut line is exaggerated, because they have not re-shaped the rear panel properly.
I’m gutted to say the least. They have promised to get in touch with me tomorrow with plans to repair the car. He thought the above would be around £900 worth of work, but said he’s 99% sure they will agree to cover all costs.
I guess the question is: Where do I stand with all this and what are my rights?
I’m out of the VW 30 day change of mind / cooling off period and the car has no finance, so I can’t even get a finance company involved with the matter.
For those questioning how I never noticed it before now, I have no idea!!!
HELP!
Damn, that's heart-breaking.
I'm pretty sure you'll be covered under the Sale Of Goods Act, for six months I believe. I think you have to give the dealer a reasonable chance to repair the car, and eventually reject it for a refund if it's not satisfactory.
Also, did the HPI check come with any guarantee?
I'm pretty sure you'll be covered under the Sale Of Goods Act, for six months I believe. I think you have to give the dealer a reasonable chance to repair the car, and eventually reject it for a refund if it's not satisfactory.
Also, did the HPI check come with any guarantee?
Edited by Arese on Wednesday 5th May 21:40
I've done the same.
Bought a laguna that was the perfect spec and everything, very blinkered I did the deal.
Got home and when cleaning it in detail noticed significant repair work had been done to the whole rear ad left hand side of the car.
HPI clear too.
If they have been repaired through the insurance then they have not been written off so nothing on the hpi register.
Bought a laguna that was the perfect spec and everything, very blinkered I did the deal.
Got home and when cleaning it in detail noticed significant repair work had been done to the whole rear ad left hand side of the car.
HPI clear too.
If they have been repaired through the insurance then they have not been written off so nothing on the hpi register.
Without wishing to insult you;
Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
Are you actually in possession of the HPI certificate/report that shows the car as being clear ?
Maybe someone can confirm, but if a car is in an accident and is repairable I have an idea its not recorded against the API register.. only gets that far if its "written off" (e.g. cat A/B/C/D) and even then I think it can come off the HPI list if inspected. Not sure on this but I don't think HPI is the be all and end all sadly
Suggest to the supplying dealer that they replace the vehicle at a very preferential rate, say 20% off forecourt price of a car they have in stock and they give you a good price for your car as part ex.
Maybe someone can confirm, but if a car is in an accident and is repairable I have an idea its not recorded against the API register.. only gets that far if its "written off" (e.g. cat A/B/C/D) and even then I think it can come off the HPI list if inspected. Not sure on this but I don't think HPI is the be all and end all sadly
Suggest to the supplying dealer that they replace the vehicle at a very preferential rate, say 20% off forecourt price of a car they have in stock and they give you a good price for your car as part ex.
Does the HPI check not come with an indemnity (usually up to £10k)? Might be able to claim on that for a reduction in the car's value.
If you asked the dealer if the car has been crashed and they replied in the negative, then they are liable under "as described" of the Sale of Goods Act. But don't go down that route yet if you are relying on their goodwill to make the repairs.
Aside: The number of Lupo GTIs out there that have been bumped is unreal. I looked at around five before finally finding a straight one. Ironically, it is usually the rear three quarters that have damage because the rear becomes so light under heavy braking, they can catch people out...
Just look forward to the day it's fixed and you can enjoy the thing...
If you asked the dealer if the car has been crashed and they replied in the negative, then they are liable under "as described" of the Sale of Goods Act. But don't go down that route yet if you are relying on their goodwill to make the repairs.
Aside: The number of Lupo GTIs out there that have been bumped is unreal. I looked at around five before finally finding a straight one. Ironically, it is usually the rear three quarters that have damage because the rear becomes so light under heavy braking, they can catch people out...
Just look forward to the day it's fixed and you can enjoy the thing...
HPI doesn't prove the car hasn't been damaged or repaired - this would only show up if it was a Cat write off.
Tell the dealer in no uncertain terms that they need to replace the car with an equivalent, or give you a full refund. Put this in writing, formally rejecting the car, and copy VW UK.
Tell the dealer in no uncertain terms that they need to replace the car with an equivalent, or give you a full refund. Put this in writing, formally rejecting the car, and copy VW UK.
gti tim said:
Without wishing to insult you;
Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
That's not correct.Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
If the car is Volkswagen Approved, it will have been assessed for bodywork damage/repair and passed/failed accordingly.
Similar to what happened to me, the OP has bought an approved used car in good faith, which has previously been pranged.
He is right to seek recourse from the supplying dealer.
Although it may seem like the world is ending for you as the car you love is not quite as pristine as perhaps you thought, I'd get some perspective on it. 1. It IS 7 years old! Any car of that age will ahve had some battle scars, its just the way it is. 2. Full of Filler....could mean a skim over a deep scratch on the panel its full lenght. But IMO a well filled original panel is better than a well fitted replacement panel as there will always be a need for SOME filler ona new panel, and aftermarket waxing, priming etching etc will never be up to factory "dipped" standards, no matter how well it is done. 3. The local dealer si saying it is the "worst job he's ever seen....BULLs
t, if that is true, he's been living in cloud cuckoo land as there is some shocking crap out there that Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles would think looked crap. 4. The York bodyshop seem to be taking it very seriously and seem to be offering to repaint virtually the whole car. This is a GOOD thing, it is 7 years old and it will mean it will all match up.
We'd all love cheaper 7 year old motors that have never hit anything, or been hit by anything, never been stonechipped, never been up a kerb ro been farted in, but they are no out there. Your USED car is exactly that, USED and whilst it may be disappointing to realise it has been bumped, the fact you didnt notice when you collected it means it cannot be too bad.
Let them get it painted up, flat and polished, be fair with them, bordering on fussy, but dont be a pain in the arse with them, they sound like they have been pretty fair with you so far, and you may need them to be on side with you if someting properly goes wrong. I'd also agree with them on a course of work, and wait a week or so before sticking it in.....why, well you can bet your arse that as soon as you get it back all mint, you'll ding it!
At least this way you have a chance of dinging it before they fix it!
Dont be too demoralised about it, It's still a good little car and will continue to be so. I dont know how old you are, but in about 10 years time I guaratee you wont give too hoots about such "patina" on cars, but that doesnt make it any better now. The bodyshop will, however!
Good luck with it.
t, if that is true, he's been living in cloud cuckoo land as there is some shocking crap out there that Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles would think looked crap. 4. The York bodyshop seem to be taking it very seriously and seem to be offering to repaint virtually the whole car. This is a GOOD thing, it is 7 years old and it will mean it will all match up. We'd all love cheaper 7 year old motors that have never hit anything, or been hit by anything, never been stonechipped, never been up a kerb ro been farted in, but they are no out there. Your USED car is exactly that, USED and whilst it may be disappointing to realise it has been bumped, the fact you didnt notice when you collected it means it cannot be too bad.
Let them get it painted up, flat and polished, be fair with them, bordering on fussy, but dont be a pain in the arse with them, they sound like they have been pretty fair with you so far, and you may need them to be on side with you if someting properly goes wrong. I'd also agree with them on a course of work, and wait a week or so before sticking it in.....why, well you can bet your arse that as soon as you get it back all mint, you'll ding it!
At least this way you have a chance of dinging it before they fix it!
Dont be too demoralised about it, It's still a good little car and will continue to be so. I dont know how old you are, but in about 10 years time I guaratee you wont give too hoots about such "patina" on cars, but that doesnt make it any better now. The bodyshop will, however!
Good luck with it.
Arese said:
Damn, that's heart-breaking.
I'm pretty sure you'll be covered under the Sale Of Goods Act, for six months I believe. I think you have to give the dealer a reasonable chance to repair the car, and eventually reject it for a refund if it's not satisfactory.
Also, did the HPI check come with any guarantee?
The HPI check was done by VW themselves, so not sure about any guarantee? Thanks for the heads up about the Sale of Goods Act. I'm pretty sure you'll be covered under the Sale Of Goods Act, for six months I believe. I think you have to give the dealer a reasonable chance to repair the car, and eventually reject it for a refund if it's not satisfactory.
Also, did the HPI check come with any guarantee?
Edited by Arese on Wednesday 5th May 21:40
Crafty_ said:
Are you actually in possession of the HPI certificate/report that shows the car as being clear ?
Suggest to the supplying dealer that they replace the vehicle at a very preferential rate, say 20% off forecourt price of a car they have in stock and they give you a good price for your car as part ex.
I dont have a copy of the HPI cert, it was just shown to me when I collected the car.Suggest to the supplying dealer that they replace the vehicle at a very preferential rate, say 20% off forecourt price of a car they have in stock and they give you a good price for your car as part ex.
Good advice about potential replacement. Thanks.
john_p said:
It could have been scraped or whatever and repaired without going through insurance. It will be HPI clear in that regard.
Did you ask the dealership if it had ever been in an accident or any bodywork had been done? What did they say?
I asked over the phone about the condition, which was described to me as immaculate. Did you ask the dealership if it had ever been in an accident or any bodywork had been done? What did they say?
I asked about damage, which is when I was told that all VW used cars are HPI clear. I appreciate however that HPI is not a 100% guarantee against accident repairs.
gti tim said:
Without wishing to insult you;
Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
No, havent contacted the previous owner. Might be worth doing so though, thank you. Just because it has been damaged / repaired does not necessarily mean it will be HPI recorded. If the dealer was unaware of the previous damage/repair, then surely they cannot be held liable? You inspected the car upon delivery, and have not discovered anything you wished to raise with the dealer. Many cars are damaged and repaired by dealers prior to original delivery to first owner without the owner even knowing.
Tried / thought about contacting previous keeper??
I appreciate that I inspected the car, however I am not someone who has years of experience in body repairs. The car looked OK to me when I collected it (dusk, lack of lighting, fresh polish).
The concern is that TWO seperate VW dealerships have spotted the problem immediatley, whereas the supplying dealer did not pick the problems up on their PDC checks.
GSP said:
I've done the same.
Bought a laguna that was the perfect spec and everything, very blinkered I did the deal.
Got home and when cleaning it in detail noticed significant repair work had been done to the whole rear ad left hand side of the car.
HPI clear too.
If they have been repaired through the insurance then they have not been written off so nothing on the hpi register.
Gutting, isnt it. Bought a laguna that was the perfect spec and everything, very blinkered I did the deal.
Got home and when cleaning it in detail noticed significant repair work had been done to the whole rear ad left hand side of the car.
HPI clear too.
If they have been repaired through the insurance then they have not been written off so nothing on the hpi register.
FFS it probably IS HPI clear.
But a "none write off" doe snot mean it has never had an accident....
If they wrote off every car that had ANY accident, we'd not be able to insure anything!
Just let them fix it and they see what you think. If you think all NEW cars are filler free, you'll be in for a big surprise one day!
But a "none write off" doe snot mean it has never had an accident....
If they wrote off every car that had ANY accident, we'd not be able to insure anything!
Just let them fix it and they see what you think. If you think all NEW cars are filler free, you'll be in for a big surprise one day!
LMC said:
That is bad...
We all put our trust in things like HPI. Supposed peace of mind eh ? Can't fault you.
All it takes is someone to make a repair without it going through an insurance co. and it's never known.
You clearly dont know what HPI is! They dont record every accident repair through insurance companies! They record pretty much exactly the opposite, ie when an insurance company WONT repair it........ie write it off. We all put our trust in things like HPI. Supposed peace of mind eh ? Can't fault you.
All it takes is someone to make a repair without it going through an insurance co. and it's never known.
A car can be repaired 'by an insurance company' and it will not show on any register, as it doesnt need to. It's had a bump and been repaired.
The rear quarter panel is literally FULL of filler
The window seals are all cracked from the previous repair
The rear bumper needs flatting down and polishing or fully repainting
The area around the petrol filler cap is a totally different colour
The drivers door shut line is exaggerated, because they have not re-shaped the rear panel properly.
While this is probably less than you should rightfully expect of a main dealer assuming you have paid top money for the car its probably pretty run of the mill for a car of that type and age. It might be worth trying to get them to at least tidy it up a bit for you but unless the chassis is bent I wouldn't worry about it too much in the grand scheme of things.
The window seals are all cracked from the previous repair
The rear bumper needs flatting down and polishing or fully repainting
The area around the petrol filler cap is a totally different colour
The drivers door shut line is exaggerated, because they have not re-shaped the rear panel properly.
While this is probably less than you should rightfully expect of a main dealer assuming you have paid top money for the car its probably pretty run of the mill for a car of that type and age. It might be worth trying to get them to at least tidy it up a bit for you but unless the chassis is bent I wouldn't worry about it too much in the grand scheme of things.
I'm afraid the dealer has done absolutely nothing wrong. If you were unhappy with the body work condition you simply should not have bought it. HPI has nothing to do with repair work. Its 7 years old!
If you didn't notice and are unhappy, sell the car on and buy another and inspect it properly this time.
Sorry if I sound blunt but people need to take responsibility for not checking the car over before buying.
I suggest a brand new car if its such a problem, and even then there's no guarantee that it has not been repaired along the way from the factory to the dealership.
HTH
If you didn't notice and are unhappy, sell the car on and buy another and inspect it properly this time.
Sorry if I sound blunt but people need to take responsibility for not checking the car over before buying.
I suggest a brand new car if its such a problem, and even then there's no guarantee that it has not been repaired along the way from the factory to the dealership.
HTH
s3fella said:
LMC said:
That is bad...
We all put our trust in things like HPI. Supposed peace of mind eh ? Can't fault you.
All it takes is someone to make a repair without it going through an insurance co. and it's never known.
You clearly dont know what HPI is! They dont record every accident repair through insurance companies! They record pretty much exactly the opposite, ie when an insurance company WONT repair it........ie write it off. We all put our trust in things like HPI. Supposed peace of mind eh ? Can't fault you.
All it takes is someone to make a repair without it going through an insurance co. and it's never known.
A car can be repaired 'by an insurance company' and it will not show on any register, as it doesnt need to. It's had a bump and been repaired.
t. He bought the car on a VW approved scheme, they should be competent enough to spot accident damage. They should then be honest to the scheme and not sell with said accident damage. What difference does the HPI make, if the VW garage was making a song and dance about it they were clearly being dishonest and hiding behind it. Would you be happy to buy a car you thought was straight and then find out it had been in a shunt? I didn't think so.
OP - I hope it gets sorted out for you and that, eventually, you can enjoy the car!
1987 said:
I'm afraid the dealer has done absolutely nothing wrong. If you were unhappy with the body work condition you simply should not have bought it. HPI has nothing to do with repair work. Its 7 years old!
If you didn't notice and are unhappy, sell the car on and buy another and inspect it properly this time.
Sorry if I sound blunt but people need to take responsibility for not checking the car over before buying.
I suggest a brand new car if its such a problem, and even then there's no guarantee that it has not been repaired along the way from the factory to the dealership.
HTH
Is 1987 the year you were born?If you didn't notice and are unhappy, sell the car on and buy another and inspect it properly this time.
Sorry if I sound blunt but people need to take responsibility for not checking the car over before buying.
I suggest a brand new car if its such a problem, and even then there's no guarantee that it has not been repaired along the way from the factory to the dealership.
HTH
You are talking s
te. It shouldn't have passed VW's own "stringent" standards for an approved used car. 
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