Our wasted Engineering industry

[andy c]

I was speaking to a chap I know runs a bbq shop and he was complaining that with the Euro/£ rates some BBQs have gone up 20%.That got me thinking.

I was thinking that half of the midlands is sitting at home because our industry has all but shut over the last 20 or so years.

Surely theres money to made locally rather than importing from Tiawan,Vietmam,china, India,Korea etc etc etc.

BBQs-
3 burners cost-£60
Ignition kit -£7
Cooking griddle-£20

Why are we paying £300-£600 for a half decent BBQ.Its just a steel box with a few bits bolted on it.

Maybe BBQs are a bad example and the production costs are going to be more than just £87 but why arent all these redundant engineering skills being used.Why havent the engineering companies that have gone because of no work,Diversified and produced something else?

We import BBQs from Australia and the US ,so they can compete with Asia!

[dunclane]

I fully agree! My mate has just bought one from Homebase for £240 and I reckon I could have knocked a better one up in metalwork class when I was 15.

[The Wookie]

Perhaps because even with the rubbish exchange rate it's cheaper to buy stuff in from Poland than it is to drag a dole scrounging brummie off his couch?

[jamoor]

andy c said:

I was speaking to a chap I know runs a bbq shop and he was complaining that with the Euro/£ rates some BBQs have gone up 20%.That got me thinking.

I was thinking that half of the midlands is sitting at home because our industry has all but shut over the last 20 or so years.

Surely theres money to made locally rather than importing from Tiawan,Vietmam,china, India,Korea etc etc etc.

BBQs-
3 burners cost-£60
Ignition kit -£7
Cooking griddle-£20

Why are we paying £300-£600 for a half decent BBQ.Its just a steel box with a few bits bolted on it.

Maybe BBQs are a bad example and the production costs are going to be more than just £87 but why arent all these redundant engineering skills being used.Why havent the engineering companies that have gone because of no work,Diversified and produced something else?

We import BBQs from Australia and the US ,so they can compete with Asia!

You forgot :-

Business rates
Insurance
HR costs
Electric Costs
Gas Costs
Property Rental
etc etc. It all adds up.

[dunclane]

The Wookie said:

Perhaps because even with the rubbish exchange rate it's cheaper to buy stuff in from Poland than it is to drag a dole scrounging brummie off his couch?

And he'll nick all the parts, go on strike etc etc

[andy c]

[quote=jamoor

You forgot :-

Business rates
Insurance
HR costs
Electric Costs
Gas Costs
Property Rental
etc etc. It all adds up.
[/quote]

Im completely aware of the costs of running a business and you forgot alot,
Employment
Health and safety
Environment
etc etc etc

but when you consider there are thousands of small companies making and selling british made products and being competitive,so why not in Engineering?

[mat205125]

The Wookie said:

Perhaps because even with the rubbish exchange rate it's cheaper to buy stuff in from Poland than it is to drag a dole scrounging brummie off his couch?

It's not just about paying the labour. It's about paying the sick pay once they finish their probationary period, and a second labour rate to cover the workload.

[papabear]

maybe because we have spent so many years prostituting our country that we no longer know how to stay loyal to our own economy?

[andy c]

[quote=mat205125
It's not just about paying the labour. It's about paying the sick pay once they finish their probationary period, and a second labour rate to cover the workload.
[/quote]

I had 30 odd employees and didnt pay 1st 3 days ,nothing.They were rarely sick and when they were it cost them.
I had only 2 that went on long term sick in 16 years,both were sciving so provided alternative work "in the office". Both left quick.The sick rate is not enough to live off anywayand after 6 months it wasnt my responsibility anyway.
We used to look after injured at work though.

There are ways of managing sickness,such as "welcome back interview".They soon realise its hard to throw a sicky and get away with it.

If they are happy at work and have motivation, they will turn up.You just recruit carefully.

[jamoor]

andy c said:

[quote=jamoor

You forgot :-

Business rates
Insurance
HR costs
Electric Costs
Gas Costs
Property Rental
etc etc. It all adds up.

Im completely aware of the costs of running a business and you forgot alot,
Employment
Health and safety
Environment
etc etc etc

but when you consider there are thousands of small companies making and selling british made products and being competitive,so why not in Engineering?

Becuase it's not worth it maybe, I guess if there's a market for it chances are someone's already doing it, if not you can make some money!

[rhinochopig]

That's what happens when you get two groups of idiot politicions who are more interested in self agandisement than the best interests of the industry and the country.

Thatcher and the Labour union leaders killed engineering in this country - Both have oil on their hands

[Tsippy]

jamoor said:

Becuase it's not worth it maybe, I guess if there's a market for it chances are someone's already doing it, if not you can make some money!

Minimum wage in the UK is around £6/hour now? You could pay a Chinese chap that for a weeks work, in addition they have no H&S nonsense, no environmental taxation, lower energy rates..... it's impossible to compete

In addition to that, no-one cares about quality anymore, "cheap is best"

[Greenwich Ross]

I'd buy a British Leyland BBQ at the drop of a hat.

They could even have the same names and come in the same colours.

I'd love to cook up some burgers on my poo-brown Princess

[The Wookie]

Greenwich Ross said:

I'd buy a British Leyland BBQ at the drop of a hat.

They could even have the same names and come in the same colours.

I'd love to cook up some burgers on my poo-brown Princess

Yeah but you'd be a bit upset when you had to constantly clear up the spots of burger/sausage oil from underneath it and then it rusted after a couple of years

[Risotto]

I would have thought the weak pound meant all our manufactured goods were going abroad rather than being sold here.

[dilbert]

Don't forget the cost of tooling!

I think, in many cases, things that we used to make in the UK, are now made in China. When the production leaves, then the tooling does too.

In the case of a barbecue, the best bet is to make one from bricks. You can even make a gas burner yourself, from a length of copper tube, which has holes in it. The heath and safety brigade would probably have a field day, but it can be done.

[Steameh]

Depends on the branch of engineering. In terms of civils, we do seem to be pretty much at the front.

[robm3]

The Crack Fox said:

Tsippy said:

jamoor said:

Becuase it's not worth it maybe, I guess if there's a market for it chances are someone's already doing it, if not you can make some money!

Minimum wage in the UK is around £6/hour now? You could pay a Chinese chap that for a weeks work, in addition they have no H&S nonsense, no environmental taxation, lower energy rates..... it's impossible to compete

In addition to that, no-one cares about quality anymore, "cheap is best"

c.$1 an hour when I was last in China, and they did a decent job, no-one in Europe can compete with that.

And their indirect labour&costs are minimal, example: In one of our suppliers they have 600 workers on two floors with one Supervisor per floor and one manager for the site. That's it. No HR. No Works Council/Union. No Team Leads. No Maintenance. Nothing. Just churning out decent quality stuff in a site that hasn't had a penny spent on it in 20 years (and machines that were 15 years old so no 5 year depreciate and replace here).
However with the BBQ suggestion I would have the metal parts pre-fabricated in either Slovakia or China and shipped to UK for final assembly.
The reason is a fully assembled BBQ would travel on volume weight not gross weight and therefore freight costs would be high. I'd wager you'd only get around 80-100 in a 40ft'er so that's £40 in freight landed. Whereas in component form you'd probably triple the quantity.

[Whitean3]

then- a challenge to the OP:

Build yourself a BBQ based on the parts and costs you set out. Then post photos of the results with a review of how well it grills sausages.
Unless you're incredibly skilled, it would probably look like a Homer Simpson creation!

You can build a BBQ out of half an unpturned oil drum for peanuts, which is fine for a campsite or sports club, but you wouldn't want it in your back garden (and the wife certainly would have words....

[marsred]

As I understand it and contrary to popular belief, we manufacture an awful lot here in the UK, we just don't need as many people to do it as we used to.