My 1st repair - did I do anything wrong?

[RevNuts]

Car: Renault Lanuna, 1.9 DTI Alize, 1999, 5 door.
Problem: Loss of power. Diagnosed as broken EGR valve.

Hi,

1 month ago I visited the local garage due to the Laguna intermittently loosing power. The mechanic diagnosed the problem as a dodgy EGR valve. Rather than paying £160 for a new one, he cleaned the existing valve and said that it would most likely fail again because the diaphragm was dodgy. He charged £80 for the repair.

Alas, the valve once clogged up again and the engine started to loose power. So I bought a 2nd hand valve for £60 from a scrappie, looked to see where the valve was located and thought "you know what, I'm gonna try and swap this out myself, doesn't look too hard. Hell, it's only 2 bolts and a clip by the looks of things."

I did the repair this evening and it felt damn good too. It took me 30 mins in total, so I'm wondering how the mechanic could have charged me £80? This was my 1st ever car repair, so I was wondering if someone could tell me whether there's anything I missed (the Haynes manual is on order):

1) Did I need to add some sort of gasket glue between the valve and the metal gasket?
2) What type of cleaner should I have used to clean the valve and the gasket? It had oily black stuff inside. I used white spirit, but I'm sure this was wrong
3) After the repair, I started the engine and there were exhaust fumes coming from the bottom of the valve where it connects to another pipe on the engine. After I'd driven round the block a few times, the fumes seemed to have visibly stopped leaking, but although you couldn't see the fumes there did seem to be something blowing against my hand, but I can't be sure. Perhaps the 2nd hand valve just needed to warm up before the moving parts became unstuck? Or should I have added something to seal that join too (there's a metal clip)?

Any advice would be great.

Edited by RevNuts on Saturday 8th May 23:27

[Getragdogleg]

Well done for having a go.

You should have cleaned the area where the valve goes with petrol on a rag or brake cleaner/degreaser, not loads, just cleaned the mating surface.
likewise the inside of the valve you put on may have needed a clean with petrol or a similar solvent. not smothered in it just cleaned a bit.

You probably need to get a new gasket they are not really very reusable, the air on your hand is an exhaust gas leak, so you need to get a gasket, remove the part again, check its clean and put it back together with the right gasket, dont do a bodgy sealer job on it, it is a bodge ! buy the right gasket for a few quid and do it right.

Edited by Getragdogleg on Saturday 8th May 23:28

[DennisTheMenace]

I would have just fitted an EGR blanking plate , its a flat plate you slide between the egr vlave and the pipe so it blockes it off , restores power and the egr valve can then do what the hell it likes ! try ebay you might find one for next time

[RevNuts]

Getragdogleg said:

likewise the inside of the valve you put on may have neede a clean with petrol or a similar solvent. not smothered in it just cleaned a bit.

Thanks for the reply Getragdogleg. The inside of the gasket would be impossible to reach through the small hole that's available, at least to clean all the way around it. So could I submerge the valve in petrol, then shake off as much of the petrol as possible before replacing it?

Edited by RevNuts on Saturday 8th May 23:31

[Getragdogleg]

RevNuts said:

Getragdogleg said:

likewise the inside of the valve you put on may have neede a clean with petrol or a similar solvent. not smothered in it just cleaned a bit.

Thanks for the reply Getragdogleg. The inside of the gasket would be impossible to reach through the small hole that's available, at least to clean all the way around it. So could I submerge the valve in petrol, then shake off as much of the petrol as possible before replacing it?

Edited by RevNuts on Saturday 8th May 23:31

Well I normally squirt a load of brake cleaner in the hole and shake it about a bit like you say, a small wooden toothpick can poke out some of the black crust from up the hole.
The main part of your problem is the leaky gasket, get a new one and fit the valve again.

All work carried out is at your own risk though, that is why you got charged £80 before, the other guy takes the risk and knows the job.

[RevNuts]

DennisTheMenace said:

I would have just fitted an EGR blanking plate , its a flat plate you slide between the egr vlave and the pipe so it blockes it off , restores power and the egr valve can then do what the hell it likes ! try ebay you might find one for next time

So does that stop the exhaust fumes going through the EGR valve, essentially bypassing it and rendering it obsolete? Does this have any side effects?

[ymwoods]

RevNuts said:

DennisTheMenace said:

I would have just fitted an EGR blanking plate , its a flat plate you slide between the egr vlave and the pipe so it blockes it off , restores power and the egr valve can then do what the hell it likes ! try ebay you might find one for next time

So does that stop the exhaust fumes going through the EGR valve, essentially bypassing it and rendering it obsolete? Does this have any side effects?

The side effects are higher emmisions on the MOT for a start but I have found that to be honest I can still get a car passed (just) with the EGR blanked off. This does not always happen though so if it does fail on emmisions you would just drive it round the corner, take the blanking plate off, go for a quick blast and then go back and have them re-test it.

Another thing is that on some cars (not sure on yours) having the EGR completly blanked off will set off the engine managment light, sometimes putting them into limp home mode aswell.

The way around this is to drill a hole in the blanking plate so that enough comes thorugh so as to not set off the EML but not enough to cause you the same problems again.

The hole you will need will differ from car to car so start small first, test it, drill slightly bigger, test it etc etc until it is right, remember to reset the cars computer before re-testing it! (

of course if yours does not give an EML on blanking it off then no drilling required)

[RevNuts]

Thanks for all the helpful advise.

On monday I'll be ordering the new metal gasket, then removing the valve, letting it soak completely submerged in petrol for 24 hours, then refit everything. The only thing I'm not 100% on is submerging it in petrol, does that sound right?

[marshalla]

RevNuts said:

I did the repair this evening and it felt damn good too. It took me 30 mins in total, so I'm wondering how the mechanic could have charged me £80?

i) Parts : £10
ii) Years of training & experience learning to identify failed parts & replace same quickly and correctly : £70


OTOH - good on you for having a go and starting to accomplish ii) for yourself. We all need to start somewhere, bt some people just can't be bothered.

[Getragdogleg]

RevNuts said:

Thanks for all the helpful advise.

On monday I'll be ordering the new metal gasket, then removing the valve, letting it soak completely submerged in petrol for 24 hours, then refit everything. The only thing I'm not 100% on is submerging it in petrol, does that sound right?

I wouldn't leave it soak, Its a tiny electric motor as well as a valve. putting a lot of petrol around the windings and letting it soak in is not a good plan really.

better to get an aerosol of carb cleaner from Halfords and squirt the cleaner up the hole that the exhaust gas goes through. repeat a few times and let it dry out well before fitting with the new gasket.

clean the mating surfaces very well though, if you have a stanly knife blade use it to scrape any old gasket off the two surfaces before you re fit the new gasket and valve.

Do not over tighten the bolts holding the EGR valve to the engine, but dont leave them too loose.

[RevNuts]

Getragdogleg said:

better to get an aerosol of carb cleaner from Halfords and squirt the cleaner up the hole that the exhaust gas goes through. repeat a few times and let it dry out well before fitting with the new gasket.

Being such an amateur, I'm not even sure which hole the exhaust goes through (to which you referred). I've taken a pic of the valve. Which hole should I target with the carb cleaner please?



or http://tinypic.com/r/178x79/5

Edited by RevNuts on Monday 10th May 14:49

Edited by RevNuts on Monday 10th May 14:49

[Deluded]

Why not just buy a new one and be done with it?

All this faffing about with the blanking plate and drilling holes etc. will just piss you off in the end. Trust me.

[RevNuts]

Deluded said:

Why not just buy a new one and be done with it?

All this faffing about with the blanking plate and drilling holes etc. will just piss you off in the end. Trust me.

For me it's about the money, and the feeling of inadequacy I have when getting a mechanic to do something that I should be capable of doing:

New valve: £113 (from Renault)
Mechanic: £80 (cash)
Total: £193.00

2nd hand valve: £60.00
New gasket: £5.00
Carb cleaner: £3.50
My time: £0.00
Total: £68.50

I've saved around £124.00 and broken my grease monkey cherry in the process, so am quite a happy bunny at the moment - until the turbo goes pop due to my lack of experience

[coupeboy]

RevNuts said:

Deluded said:

Why not just buy a new one and be done with it?

All this faffing about with the blanking plate and drilling holes etc. will just piss you off in the end. Trust me.

For me it's about the money, and the feeling of inadequacy I have when getting a mechanic to do something that I should be capable of doing:

New valve: £113 (from Renault)
Mechanic: £80 (cash)
Total: £193.00

2nd hand valve: £60.00
New gasket: £5.00
Carb cleaner: £3.50
My time: £0.00
Total: £68.50

I've saved around £124.00 and broken my grease monkey cherry in the process, so am quite a happy bunny at the moment - until the turbo goes pop due to my lack of experience

For the sake of £53 I would have got a new valve. Could save a lot of hassle in the long run, second hand parts are always a bit hit and miss.

[Deluded]

£68 for the second hand part but now your buying a blanking plate so how much is that?

By the time you have messed about with it all, you will be just wishing you didn't bother.

I know how you feel though, I hate, and very very rarely pay for a garage to do anything and enjoy the feeling of doing trying something new and doing repairs etc. But trust me, when you've spent all day taking something apart, cleaning and fixing it, only to put it back together to find it still doesn't work or has got worse, you don't feel happy in yourself. Especially when you're doing it for the third time, outside, in the dark, cold, on the floor under a jacked up car, in the dirt... Happiness is the last thing you will feel, even when you finally get it sorted. You just wonder why you ever bothered...

Saying that though, I do love working on my car. Just wish I had a hydraulic lift at my disposal.

[Getragdogleg]

Clean between point two and three ismy best guess, the top point (1) is probably the vacuum chamber from the inlet manifold that allows EGR when certain vacuum is achived.

I dont blame you for doing it your self, you could always hunt out a new valve and change it yourself again later down the line if it dies again.

You are picking up skills faster than you think with this have a go approach.

[RevNuts]

coupeboy said:

For the sake of £53 I would have got a new valve. Could save a lot of hassle in the long run, second hand parts are always a bit hit and miss.

Money is really tight at the moment, but next time I'll go for the new part instead. As you say, less hassle and more peace of mind.