I see the future - high performance lightweight turbo diesel
Discussion
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
good point in theory (and there are some out there) but 350bhp and 500+ lb ft in a, typically FWD, hatch would be a nightmare. You would need 4wd (or RWD) to harness it which will increase weight, costs and so on.
I would suggest a lightweight sportscar like the Elise with a 2.0 diesel lump with 150bhp would be more than ample. Much like the VW roadster that may or may not make production.
However whilst it has its place, in a fun car I'll stick with petrol
I would suggest a lightweight sportscar like the Elise with a 2.0 diesel lump with 150bhp would be more than ample. Much like the VW roadster that may or may not make production.
However whilst it has its place, in a fun car I'll stick with petrol
I agree with you on the lightness but I'm not sold on dervs being the future of what I'd want in a sports car. Diesels are all good and everything but I like the free revving nature of a good petrol engine myself plus the soundtrack is all part of the driving experience for me, and as yet I've not heard a diesel which didn't sound like a bag of spanners
With regard to the lightness though, I can never see it happening for the mass market. For me, in a sports car I see things like power steering and central locking as unnecessary weight and complexity, but the masses these days wouldn't consider a car if it didn't have a 5 star euro NCAP rating, big carpets, soundproofing, aircon etc etc. All these things add up to make quite a weighty car.
With regard to the lightness though, I can never see it happening for the mass market. For me, in a sports car I see things like power steering and central locking as unnecessary weight and complexity, but the masses these days wouldn't consider a car if it didn't have a 5 star euro NCAP rating, big carpets, soundproofing, aircon etc etc. All these things add up to make quite a weighty car.
speedbird1000 said:
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
Share the idea but think 350bhp is a bit too much. Think the nearest we'll see will come out of the VW group; maybe a Polo or Fabia with 250bhp and a ton of torque.................quite "doable" surely ? There again, maybe the new Audi A1 will, eventually, be thus endowed. Would be nice to think so but I'm not holding my breat.I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
speedbird1000 said:
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
You only want to use a spread of 1000rpm? Really?I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
petrol engine fuel economy craters when you thrash it, the golf G.T showed brilliant mpg during thrashing, wow that was impressive - about 42 mpg.
996 turbo shows what acceleration is all about, but i dont want the flash and hassle that goes with it. I want a stealthy high performance diesel that goes like a rocket and gives great mpg. Also, the low revs torque make it perfect for darting around, that is a big advantage over petrol in my opinon. Something like a new skoda would have been a great paltform, but new prices of a superbs seem stupid to me ?
VW, Audi maybe even Alfa should make this new machine and it should come with selectable 4 wheel or 2 wheel drive, manual, etc
996 turbo shows what acceleration is all about, but i dont want the flash and hassle that goes with it. I want a stealthy high performance diesel that goes like a rocket and gives great mpg. Also, the low revs torque make it perfect for darting around, that is a big advantage over petrol in my opinon. Something like a new skoda would have been a great paltform, but new prices of a superbs seem stupid to me ?
VW, Audi maybe even Alfa should make this new machine and it should come with selectable 4 wheel or 2 wheel drive, manual, etc
speedbird1000 said:
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
You're a burke, clearly. 350bhp/500lb torque from a hatch weighing 1100k? You are having a laugh. You'd need a v8 turbo diesel for those figures, and a hatch of 1100k's would be infeasable with that kind of engine. It would handle like a pig because 75% of the weight would be on the front wheels, and the suspension would be crap, and it would melt its tyres in seconds.I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
Only a factory/works TDi race car would come near those figures from a 4 pot engine, so you'd be talking about a £200k car
speedbird1000 said:
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
Words fail me!
What's this about low revs?
I drove a Scirocco diesel the other week. Nice drive, a nice bit of power when the turbo kicks in, revs to the red line nice and cleanly.
However, at low revs NO power, at all. Pathetic, I thought diesels were all about "low down torque". Most disappointing. My mate drove my S2000 and said even that had more pull in the lower third of the rev range. We both sat at 30 in 6th and gave it throttle. The Honda gradually started pulling along (nothing great but some acceleration) picking up nicely as revs got higher etc. The VW diesel however had nothing, had to go to 4th to get going.
If the scirocco diesel is anything to go by, the new era of TDi's have great MID range power, rubbish low down power and OKish high rev power.
I drove a Leon TDI a few years back, that was the same.
I'm not dissing the car, it was a fine drive and would have no problems, once used to the car, keeping the revs above the lower quarter/third of the rev range, I was just a bit surprised as all I hear (on here at least) from diesel aficionado's is how good the "low down torque" is.......
As for the OP on this thread, I smell a rat. Considering Porsche 911s, V10 M5s etc. then going with a Golf? hmm......... You may be genuine OP, but come on, you can see why eyebrows are raised.... Are you from a VW forum trolling?
I drove a Scirocco diesel the other week. Nice drive, a nice bit of power when the turbo kicks in, revs to the red line nice and cleanly.
However, at low revs NO power, at all. Pathetic, I thought diesels were all about "low down torque". Most disappointing. My mate drove my S2000 and said even that had more pull in the lower third of the rev range. We both sat at 30 in 6th and gave it throttle. The Honda gradually started pulling along (nothing great but some acceleration) picking up nicely as revs got higher etc. The VW diesel however had nothing, had to go to 4th to get going.
If the scirocco diesel is anything to go by, the new era of TDi's have great MID range power, rubbish low down power and OKish high rev power.
I drove a Leon TDI a few years back, that was the same.
I'm not dissing the car, it was a fine drive and would have no problems, once used to the car, keeping the revs above the lower quarter/third of the rev range, I was just a bit surprised as all I hear (on here at least) from diesel aficionado's is how good the "low down torque" is.......
As for the OP on this thread, I smell a rat. Considering Porsche 911s, V10 M5s etc. then going with a Golf? hmm......... You may be genuine OP, but come on, you can see why eyebrows are raised.... Are you from a VW forum trolling?
Astra 888, done. Great car. However the Engine isn't the most reliable, but really presses on never the less. Approx 34mph per 1k revs in 6th so great economy.
A similar car with a german 230/250hp 350/400lb ft lump would be ideal. If you could make a car like this sound good it would be a best seller.
A similar car with a german 230/250hp 350/400lb ft lump would be ideal. If you could make a car like this sound good it would be a best seller.
Tony*T3 said:
speedbird1000 said:
what we need is a high performance turbo diesel hatchback. I have driven the golf G.T TDI all week as a hire car and it has awakened me as to the future / what is possible. Test drove a 335d and without trying to offend anyone, it is not worth it for me, although obviosuly a lovely car. The autobox got in the way and...it does not feel as punchy as the golf amazingly. The golf is a blast at 0 to 60 type speeds, it rockets through little gaps on a wave of juicy torque. you need to keep revs between 2000 and 3000 only, not higher and an autobox will never be able to do properly that anyway.
I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
You're a burke, clearly. 350bhp/500lb torque from a hatch weighing 1100k? You are having a laugh. You'd need a v8 turbo diesel for those figures, and a hatch of 1100k's would be infeasable with that kind of engine. It would handle like a pig because 75% of the weight would be on the front wheels, and the suspension would be crap, and it would melt its tyres in seconds.I was all set to buy a 996 turbo but am giving up. Nearly got an M5 v10 instead. Fuel economy monsterous so canned that idea. So, what we really need is a hatchback somewhat like a golf, not heavier, manual, with a serious little turbo diesel and chipped. Just more of what is on offer. We need 350 bhp and 580 ft/lbs in a hatch weighing not more than 1100 kg. That would be a sensational car. It will have decent fuel consumption when you take it easy and go like a little rocket when you want fun. WHAT AND WHERE IS THAT CAR ????? WHo will make it ?
Only a factory/works TDi race car would come near those figures from a 4 pot engine, so you'd be talking about a £200k car
Then there's weight, diesel engines are heavier than petrols and one producing 350 bhp will be VERY heavy, not a problem in a big barge, but in a Golf, nah.
Basically, it isn't gonna happen mate.
Get a petrol Golf GTI, it will be quick and quite economical and reliable. The std TDi will be more economical but slower.
Edited by Dracoro on Sunday 9th May 19:47
speedbird1000 said:
i maybe clueless,
I wouldn't disagree with that.speedbird1000 said:
and the 123d is like soooo overpriced i felt like i was being duped by bmw..
£2k more for more power and a vastly superior RWD chassis? Sounds like a bargain compared to a Golf GTD to me. Did you even look at the price list before you posted?So tell us, what do you drive now if a rattly diesel rep-box was such a performance revelation to you?
Saab Twin Turbo Diesel - Driven one as a company car before (my mums)...my lord was that quick, 400ft/lb torque and 200bhp...phenomenal car.
Other than that your only real option would be to tune the Golf GT TDi, a friend of mine has one, the 130bhp version, chipped up with full powerflow exhaust system.
It easily keeps up with petrol hot hatches and most of the time eats them up.
Other than those 2...keep looking im afraid...
Other than that your only real option would be to tune the Golf GT TDi, a friend of mine has one, the 130bhp version, chipped up with full powerflow exhaust system.
It easily keeps up with petrol hot hatches and most of the time eats them up.
Other than those 2...keep looking im afraid...
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff