First 'Sports' Estate car?
Discussion
Having a bit of a disccusion with a friend and we both can't think of anything earlier than the E30 325i Touring that could be defined as a 'sports' estate car. Odviously the Audi S4 springs to mind but this didn't come along till a little after in 1991.
An example would be mine, of 1990 Vintage
Just wondering if anyone's got any further ideas what could be defined as the first genuine Sports Estate car?
An example would be mine, of 1990 Vintage
Just wondering if anyone's got any further ideas what could be defined as the first genuine Sports Estate car?
Edited by Sf_Manta on Sunday 23 May 17:26
In my personal opinion the first estate car that can genuinely be defined as a 'sports car' (and not just a big engined normal car) is the Audi RS2.
Yes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.
Yes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.Edited by T89 Callan on Sunday 23 May 17:42
I'd say the Scimitar GTE and Volvo 1800ES were 'shooting breaks'. My general 'rule' on vehicle styles is:
Saloon - 3-box, two or four doors, head and legroom for four full-sized people.
Hatchback - 2-box three or five-door version of above
Coupe - cut-down version of above, usually with two/three doors, occasionally four. Sacrifices rear head and/or legroom for improved handling/aerodynamics.
Shooting-brake - 3-door 2-box Coupe which retains the rear headroom of a saloon
Estate - 3-box 5-door hatchback
MPV - one-box car with adaptable interior
First modern shooting-brake as we'd recognise it was probably this:
Tornado Typhoon Sportsbrake, from 1960.
Saloon - 3-box, two or four doors, head and legroom for four full-sized people.
Hatchback - 2-box three or five-door version of above
Coupe - cut-down version of above, usually with two/three doors, occasionally four. Sacrifices rear head and/or legroom for improved handling/aerodynamics.
Shooting-brake - 3-door 2-box Coupe which retains the rear headroom of a saloon
Estate - 3-box 5-door hatchback
MPV - one-box car with adaptable interior
First modern shooting-brake as we'd recognise it was probably this:
Tornado Typhoon Sportsbrake, from 1960.
vit4 said:
Is this going to descend into another shooting brake/estate fiasco? 
Personally, I'd think both the Volvo and Scimitar are shooting brakes? So does that make them estates or something different?
At the time they were marketed as sporting estates. Shooting brake's were low volume bespoke coach built conversions of expensive GT cars. The Scimitar and the Volvo were production cars and considerably cheaper.Personally, I'd think both the Volvo and Scimitar are shooting brakes? So does that make them estates or something different?
T89 Callan said:
In my personal opinion the first estate car that can genuinely be defined as a 'sports car' (and not just a big engined normal car) is the Audi RS2.
Yes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.
M5 touring came out beforeYes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.Edited by T89 Callan on Sunday 23 May 17:42
yinujim said:
T89 Callan said:
In my personal opinion the first estate car that can genuinely be defined as a 'sports car' (and not just a big engined normal car) is the Audi RS2.
Yes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.
M5 touring came out beforeYes the E30 325i is quicker than most of it's contempories but it wasn't a sports car, niether was the Volvo 850T5 of the Audi S2, they were just 'hot' version of normal cars.
Wereas the RS2 was a full blown Porsche built sportscar under and Audi estate body.
I consider the same true today, 335i and S4 Touring/Avants aren't 'sports cars' but M3 and RS4 Touring/Avants are. (is there a current M3 Touring?)
ETA:
One day soon, I'll own one.Edited by T89 Callan on Sunday 23 May 17:42
The audi 200 quattro avant 20V
The grandaddy of the RS range
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