Less power?

[Chunky La Funga]

Looking at the spy images of the new BMW M5 at the Nurburgring got me wondering.

Who's going to be the first of the big manufacturers to put a hand up and say 'enough is enough. The replacement for the xxxx is going to have less power than its predecessor but offer similar performance through weight saving'?

I, for one, would welcome the M5 reverting to 400bhp if the tradeoff was a simpler, lither, more resilient and efficient car. I know it's not the most PH thing to say, but is this quest for more power just disguising the fact that many cars are overweight and overly complex?

[kambites]

I think first, we'll start seeing manufacturers sticking with exactly the same power output but reducing weight as that's more acceptable for pub braggers than reducing power. Power reductions will probably come, but I suspect not for a while.

[neil_bolton]

Never mind that, the fact that weight saving promotes all sorts of benefits most notably faster direction changes, you end up with a much better all round package.

All very well going like stink in a straight line if you can't turn at the end. M5 being a slight case aside.

[Deranged Granny]

kambites said:

I think first, we'll start seeing manufacturers sticking with exactly the same power output but reducing weight as that's more acceptable for pub braggers than reducing power. Power reductions will probably come, but I suspect not for a while.

For example the newer CTR. Although that looks heavier than the EP3 to me...

[130R]

Chunky La Funga said:

I, for one, would welcome the M5 reverting to 400bhp if the tradeoff was a simpler, lither, more resilient and efficient car.

It's one thing saying this but quite another to then go and put down £60k+ and buy it.

Additionally the M5 is not supposed to be simple, it's BMW's technical showcase.

[Silent1]

Deranged Granny said:

kambites said:

I think first, we'll start seeing manufacturers sticking with exactly the same power output but reducing weight as that's more acceptable for pub braggers than reducing power. Power reductions will probably come, but I suspect not for a while.

For example the newer CTR. Although that looks heavier than the EP3 to me...

It's 200kg heavier than the breadvan shape the current one.

[bales]

Deranged Granny said:

kambites said:

I think first, we'll start seeing manufacturers sticking with exactly the same power output but reducing weight as that's more acceptable for pub braggers than reducing power. Power reductions will probably come, but I suspect not for a while.

For example the newer CTR. Although that looks heavier than the EP3 to me...

Yeah it is, but they managed to get the 0-60 times the same by tweaking the gearing - bit of a backward step imo.

Weight saving is where the benefits come from, less power is just a by-product of this.

[kambites]

I think the M5 is a bad example because it's based off another, very mainstream, car. The M5 will only get significantly lighter if the whole 5-series range gets significantly lighter and any decision to do that, would be driven mostly by the projected sales figures for the smallest diesel engined models that make up most of the sales.

[10 Pence Short]

Deranged Granny said:

kambites said:

I think first, we'll start seeing manufacturers sticking with exactly the same power output but reducing weight as that's more acceptable for pub braggers than reducing power. Power reductions will probably come, but I suspect not for a while.

For example the newer CTR. Although that looks heavier than the EP3 to me...

Not a great example- it's heavier and they only kept the power the same because the emissions are horrendous if you try and up the wick. If it'd been a turbocharged engine it would have been another 30bhp or so better off to match the competition.