Group B as a Daily driver...
Discussion
I realise this is totally a random question but could a Group B rally car say a Pug 205 T16 handle the daily grind of a 15k a year commute?
Would anyone really want to do this for real day in day out & imagine winter ice or summer intense heat and that savage on boost.
Note I mean a fully tuned 550bhp min example not a detuned version.
ALso would anyone opt for the rally cross super short gearing just to enjoy every traffic light grand prix.
Would anyone really want to do this for real day in day out & imagine winter ice or summer intense heat and that savage on boost.
Note I mean a fully tuned 550bhp min example not a detuned version.
ALso would anyone opt for the rally cross super short gearing just to enjoy every traffic light grand prix.
I dread to think how few miles those engines and gearboxes can do in between rebuilds. I'd expect you'd be doing it at least once a month if it was in full tune and expecting to do 15,000 miles a year. In fact, with the time needed for rebuilds, you'd probably need two or three engines to allow you to do that mileage.
Sadly I doubt that an engine tuned to that degree could cope with the mileage. For example, most race tuned engines in single seaters (F3 for example) do about 600 miles between rebuilds (less to remain competitive). 550bhp is close to what the original Group B cars put out, so I doubt they'd be much more than a few thousand miles at most.
I think the noise might annoy you after a while too
I've got a review of the 6R4 somewhere that says it's utterly deafening without full on big ear defenders on.
I think the noise might annoy you after a while too
I've got a review of the 6R4 somewhere that says it's utterly deafening without full on big ear defenders on.I think just one one problem would be fuel, they were running rocket fuel and won't work with anything else
you can get current rally fuel at 102ron at about £3 per litre, but i wouldn't be sure it'd be happy on that
Its a lovely idea, but so many issues, i guess in a nutshell it'd be very expensive though if you went for one of the non turbo group B cars it'd be a lot easier
you can get current rally fuel at 102ron at about £3 per litre, but i wouldn't be sure it'd be happy on that
Its a lovely idea, but so many issues, i guess in a nutshell it'd be very expensive though if you went for one of the non turbo group B cars it'd be a lot easier
The other thing is that whilst I realise that rally engines tend to be more flexible than circuit racing engines, I expect even a group B rally engine has a reasonably narrow power band. Most racing engines literally cough and splutter and generally don't do much at all if you're out of that power band.
Oh, and then there's the gearbox. With 550bhp you'd be looking at a straight cut dog box, and they only really work if you're ramming gears up and down really fast - anything other than that and you need to DDC every gearchange and even then they don't like it too much.
Ah yes, and the clutch. I expect with that power it'd be a twin plate race clutch, which is a pig to use (try an Esprit V8!) and needs replacing reasonably frequently with a great deal of expense.
Oh, and then there's the gearbox. With 550bhp you'd be looking at a straight cut dog box, and they only really work if you're ramming gears up and down really fast - anything other than that and you need to DDC every gearchange and even then they don't like it too much.
Ah yes, and the clutch. I expect with that power it'd be a twin plate race clutch, which is a pig to use (try an Esprit V8!) and needs replacing reasonably frequently with a great deal of expense.
Welshbeef said:
I realise this is totally a random question but could a Group B rally car say a Pug 205 T16 handle the daily grind of a 15k a year commute?
Would anyone really want to do this for real day in day out & imagine winter ice or summer intense heat and that savage on boost.
Note I mean a fully tuned 550bhp min example not a detuned version.
ALso would anyone opt for the rally cross super short gearing just to enjoy every traffic light grand prix.
Pug T16 in full E2 spec ..... using on the road at all Would anyone really want to do this for real day in day out & imagine winter ice or summer intense heat and that savage on boost.
Note I mean a fully tuned 550bhp min example not a detuned version.
ALso would anyone opt for the rally cross super short gearing just to enjoy every traffic light grand prix.
As for 15k per year
No chance - period.
A road spec RS200 is possible, Bob Howe was doing 30k per year driving around but that was in FoMoCo owned and maintained cars and that was 20+ years ago.
A midly tuned Sport Quattro would be capable of it as well, but again, 20 years on, parts availablity/costs etc., mean it certainley wouldn't be cheap.
Possible, but I got pretty pissed off with the noise from the Fouquet after about 5 minutes on the road, and that was with a lid and noise cancelling intercom on...
The clutch chatters, bangs and grabs at anything other than a full on launch, it lets water in when it rains, it's a million degrees when it's sunny, and even in top gear you're at 4.5krpm at 70mph...
The clutch chatters, bangs and grabs at anything other than a full on launch, it lets water in when it rains, it's a million degrees when it's sunny, and even in top gear you're at 4.5krpm at 70mph...
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 26th May 18:53
Every time I go to the Classic events I tend to find myself hugely drawn to the Group B section rally cars.
The noise as a spectator the visable acceleration, and then even with racing drivers driving them Ive seen a few lose it .
Garlick - I guessing the warmup/cool down would be very similar to an F1 car - I mean back in the early 80's F1 cars pushed out what.. 500bhp before the Turbo era.
4,500rpm @ 70mph - how high do these rev 8k??
I think the reality would sadly be as many have said huge running costs very uncomfortable, difficult to drive, frequently off the road being serviced/rebuilt and then the killer parts availability could mean fabricating parts.
Is there any genuine PH owners of Group B cars? Garlick wonder if there are could PH do an article/road test & track test of one?
The noise as a spectator the visable acceleration, and then even with racing drivers driving them Ive seen a few lose it .
Garlick - I guessing the warmup/cool down would be very similar to an F1 car - I mean back in the early 80's F1 cars pushed out what.. 500bhp before the Turbo era.
4,500rpm @ 70mph - how high do these rev 8k??
I think the reality would sadly be as many have said huge running costs very uncomfortable, difficult to drive, frequently off the road being serviced/rebuilt and then the killer parts availability could mean fabricating parts.
Is there any genuine PH owners of Group B cars? Garlick wonder if there are could PH do an article/road test & track test of one?
Motorsport Muse said:
retrorider said:
As a benchmark on cost a full wrc impreza costs £1000 per km to run...
There is one zero too many on that price. Unless I used to write bills that were way off the mark.Honestly to me that seems not bad at all plus as a road car far less should wear out as quickly as a rally car in full competition. I mean how much does a say 10 year old WRC Impreza cost to buy? DOes it depreciate? If not £2.4k p.a. is bloody good value as even a £10k new car would lose that much in depn in the first year.
Muse - you ever had the pleasure of driving one of the Iconic Group B cars?
Welshbeef said:
Motorsport Muse said:
retrorider said:
As a benchmark on cost a full wrc impreza costs £1000 per km to run...
There is one zero too many on that price. Unless I used to write bills that were way off the mark.Honestly to me that seems not bad at all plus as a road car far less should wear out as quickly as a rally car in full competition. I mean how much does a say 10 year old WRC Impreza cost to buy? DOes it depreciate? If not £2.4k p.a. is bloody good value as even a £10k new car would lose that much in depn in the first year.
Muse - you ever had the pleasure of driving one of the Iconic Group B cars?
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