Jap Turbomonsters, how accessible is ownership of these?
Discussion
I'm not in the market for one of these, but am curious anyway.
How reasonably is the prospect of owning a 10-15 year-old japanese turbo, that can put out impressive figures, for well under the £10k mark, for someone who has no mechanical knowledge of cars?
Reason I'm asking is, most of the people I see with these cars seem to (/claim to) have a reasonable amount of mechanical knowledge, and usually fit a lot of their own mods themself, as well as over-see any proffesional modding of them closely, and always seem to have very specific targets/expectation of what they're going to achieve with their mods.
I just don't understand why I don't see more 300-400 bhp S15s/Silvias, Skylines, Supras, 300zxs + the other favourites of the Fast and Furious crew on the road, if they give such good performance for their cost?
Are these high-maintenance/expensive to run? Should you be expected to fix them yourself when they do go wrong? Or do people just not like being associated with the image that goes with them?
How reasonably is the prospect of owning a 10-15 year-old japanese turbo, that can put out impressive figures, for well under the £10k mark, for someone who has no mechanical knowledge of cars?
Reason I'm asking is, most of the people I see with these cars seem to (/claim to) have a reasonable amount of mechanical knowledge, and usually fit a lot of their own mods themself, as well as over-see any proffesional modding of them closely, and always seem to have very specific targets/expectation of what they're going to achieve with their mods.
I just don't understand why I don't see more 300-400 bhp S15s/Silvias, Skylines, Supras, 300zxs + the other favourites of the Fast and Furious crew on the road, if they give such good performance for their cost?
Are these high-maintenance/expensive to run? Should you be expected to fix them yourself when they do go wrong? Or do people just not like being associated with the image that goes with them?
Tend to see alot of these sorts of things for sale, and read alot about them on forums etc, but can't remember the last time i saw a skyline on the road, occasionally see an S13 at uni (hard to miss considering how loud it is), don't ever remember seeing a modified supra so on etc... so i wouldnt have thought its a brilliant financial proposition.
It depends on a lot of things, but for the large part it's very easy to tune them, and fairly easy to look after them. There's a few cars out there which will take the sort of power you're alluding to with next to no work. SR20DET engine in the S15 will be a bit more work than a supra, which will be next to no work really, or a skyline which is much the same story.
Supras seem to be the safe bet, 2JZ is a fabulous engine and they're amazingly tuneable, and utterly bombproof. RB26's are less bombproof from my experiences, but still a cracking engine that can take a lot of power hurled at it. The 300zx is relatively easy to get some power out of, but the engine bays are rammed and they can be a bit of a pain to work on, not hard, just awkward.
There's a hell of a lot of 400bhp cars around, take a quick look on any of the supra/skyline/200sx/300zx/scooby/evo ... ad infinitum.. owners clubs and you'll find plenty of examples. There's normally a fair few specialists around for each of these models too, but for the large part there's very few of the usual suspects I can think of which are especially sophisticated or need specialist attention on a regular basis.
Things like brakes, oil changes, the really basic general maintenance isn't hard at all, no different to most other cars you see on the road. You might also find, as many do, that because you're so interested in fettling the car, or getting a bit more from it and/or learning about it - you surround yourself with a community of people who tinker with them, thus you inevitably start learning how to do stuff yourself.
I've known a few people with no technical knowledge or ability transform themselves into widely respected gurus for their respective cars because they've become so interested in them and found they enjoy twirling spanners - be it because they couldn't afford to repair it or purely because it interested them. It's really quite addictive, and when there's no haynes manual you tend to fall back on the (often superb) internet communities and your halfords tool kits!
The tweaked cars I've had all required very little looking after, aside of the odd snotter I bought when I was younger and dafter and wet behind the lugs.
I did pop an engine in my R33 GTR - or rather knackered a bottom end bearing which isn't entirely uncommon but hardly an everyday occurance, but other than that I've had no real problems to speak of. Maintenance wise regular oil changes are considered fairly essential, but other than that just service them now and again, change the oil, and off you go. Contrary to popular belief it didn't require specialists to look after it. It got used every day, and had a hell of a lot more power than standard. It cost a fair bit to run because it liked a drink, insurance wasn't cheap and so on, but in terms of going wrong my E46 325i cost more per annum on average, and that was pretty reliable! In total I've had 4 tuned Jap cars with >400bhp, all nissans I hasten to add. None of them have been what I'd call ruinous, the only one that was moderately costly to run was a bit of a dog when I got it, and most of the money spent was putting it right.
There's no shortage of people who've had problems though, it's to be expected when you're dealing with cars that are more often that not grey imports with no real history to speak of - for all you know it could have spent all its days lapping motegi before it got boxed up and sent to you - the only real assurance you'll get in that department is buying from a decent trader like newera imports for example, or putting a fairly heavy dollop of faith in the auction condition report (they are pretty damn good though, and very thorough).
Buy a good example of a car that has few or no inherent problems, be it a GTR or a Supra TT or whatever else, tune it sensibly using decent parts and a good specialist, look after it properly, and you're likely to enjoy many trouble free miles. With the advent of so many great owners clubs, it's generally very easy to pick out a cracking car that's already had the mods you might want in the future fitted, for not a lot more than a standard example. Being as the UK is completely saturated with grey imports, there's no shortage of cars to pick and choose from - that being said it also means there's a lot of crap out there worth avoiding - the old cliché 'it pays to do your research' has never been more true.
Buy a snotter, fit a bleed valve to wind the boost up, thrash it everywhere and you'll have a few very fun miles, lots of bits of engine lying on the hardshoulder, a big cheque to write to fix it and a face like a kicked in pisspot.
All in all, they've very accessible. There's a lot of very tuneable cars that don't cost the earth to extract power from or improve the dynamics of. Many (not all I'm sure) don't require constant nannying or fixing, and there's even a few that will trundle along for tens of thousands of miles with monster power without anything beyond a service being needed (supra is a good example of this). Just be aware that you'll probably be more inclined to drive it in a manner that suits it's power / dynamics, and thus you'll find things like brakes etc will need attention a bit more often than your grans fiesta popular plus.
Whether you can resist the urge to fettle it further however is another matter. How far you go normally turns out to be a question of wallet depth and commitment. As someone who's taken it far too far on a couple of occasions, I can say wholeheartedly it can get bleedin' expensive if you're a magpie for the latest kit
Supras seem to be the safe bet, 2JZ is a fabulous engine and they're amazingly tuneable, and utterly bombproof. RB26's are less bombproof from my experiences, but still a cracking engine that can take a lot of power hurled at it. The 300zx is relatively easy to get some power out of, but the engine bays are rammed and they can be a bit of a pain to work on, not hard, just awkward.
There's a hell of a lot of 400bhp cars around, take a quick look on any of the supra/skyline/200sx/300zx/scooby/evo ... ad infinitum.. owners clubs and you'll find plenty of examples. There's normally a fair few specialists around for each of these models too, but for the large part there's very few of the usual suspects I can think of which are especially sophisticated or need specialist attention on a regular basis.
Things like brakes, oil changes, the really basic general maintenance isn't hard at all, no different to most other cars you see on the road. You might also find, as many do, that because you're so interested in fettling the car, or getting a bit more from it and/or learning about it - you surround yourself with a community of people who tinker with them, thus you inevitably start learning how to do stuff yourself.
I've known a few people with no technical knowledge or ability transform themselves into widely respected gurus for their respective cars because they've become so interested in them and found they enjoy twirling spanners - be it because they couldn't afford to repair it or purely because it interested them. It's really quite addictive, and when there's no haynes manual you tend to fall back on the (often superb) internet communities and your halfords tool kits!
The tweaked cars I've had all required very little looking after, aside of the odd snotter I bought when I was younger and dafter and wet behind the lugs.
I did pop an engine in my R33 GTR - or rather knackered a bottom end bearing which isn't entirely uncommon but hardly an everyday occurance, but other than that I've had no real problems to speak of. Maintenance wise regular oil changes are considered fairly essential, but other than that just service them now and again, change the oil, and off you go. Contrary to popular belief it didn't require specialists to look after it. It got used every day, and had a hell of a lot more power than standard. It cost a fair bit to run because it liked a drink, insurance wasn't cheap and so on, but in terms of going wrong my E46 325i cost more per annum on average, and that was pretty reliable! In total I've had 4 tuned Jap cars with >400bhp, all nissans I hasten to add. None of them have been what I'd call ruinous, the only one that was moderately costly to run was a bit of a dog when I got it, and most of the money spent was putting it right.
There's no shortage of people who've had problems though, it's to be expected when you're dealing with cars that are more often that not grey imports with no real history to speak of - for all you know it could have spent all its days lapping motegi before it got boxed up and sent to you - the only real assurance you'll get in that department is buying from a decent trader like newera imports for example, or putting a fairly heavy dollop of faith in the auction condition report (they are pretty damn good though, and very thorough).
Buy a good example of a car that has few or no inherent problems, be it a GTR or a Supra TT or whatever else, tune it sensibly using decent parts and a good specialist, look after it properly, and you're likely to enjoy many trouble free miles. With the advent of so many great owners clubs, it's generally very easy to pick out a cracking car that's already had the mods you might want in the future fitted, for not a lot more than a standard example. Being as the UK is completely saturated with grey imports, there's no shortage of cars to pick and choose from - that being said it also means there's a lot of crap out there worth avoiding - the old cliché 'it pays to do your research' has never been more true.
Buy a snotter, fit a bleed valve to wind the boost up, thrash it everywhere and you'll have a few very fun miles, lots of bits of engine lying on the hardshoulder, a big cheque to write to fix it and a face like a kicked in pisspot.
All in all, they've very accessible. There's a lot of very tuneable cars that don't cost the earth to extract power from or improve the dynamics of. Many (not all I'm sure) don't require constant nannying or fixing, and there's even a few that will trundle along for tens of thousands of miles with monster power without anything beyond a service being needed (supra is a good example of this). Just be aware that you'll probably be more inclined to drive it in a manner that suits it's power / dynamics, and thus you'll find things like brakes etc will need attention a bit more often than your grans fiesta popular plus.
Whether you can resist the urge to fettle it further however is another matter. How far you go normally turns out to be a question of wallet depth and commitment. As someone who's taken it far too far on a couple of occasions, I can say wholeheartedly it can get bleedin' expensive if you're a magpie for the latest kit
Edited by Stu R on Saturday 29th May 17:30
If you can find a stock mildly tuned supra (300-360bhp) then it likely to be very easy on everything bar fuel.
The more you mod it the more servicing becomes important and the intervals reduce so the running costs increase but if you can replace your own plugs etc this additional cost is minimal. As they get older and older one off large costs (turbo's suspension overhaul etc) are more likely but also with age the rough ones become easier to spot.
I think you don't see many as they aren't actually that many compared to most marques but also fewer and fewer are daily drives. They are 'saved' for weekend blats etc or are simply too expensive for the daily commute.
Stock supras can hit very high mileages 150K miles on the original clutch/turbo's and ancillaries, but an unloved 60K miler that someone cranks up to 1.2 bar could lunch it's engine and leave you with a bill as much as the car cost..........It's been around so long now though that the common problems are well documented on the marque specific forums and so it's easy to do some preventative maintenance (eg crank pulley replacement) and to check for soon to be problems on a possible purchase (no/luke warm heater = heater matrix and big bills)
I cannot recommend the stock supra enough for performance in the under £10K bracket you just need to have an eye for the well kept and not totally abused ones and if you find one and can resist tweaking it yourself it will provide cheap (again bar fuel costs) reliable and fast motoring. Most can't leave them alone and either thrive on the diy aspects or the quest for 'just a bit more' power and this is where the financial costs can spiral and the amount it's actually used often becomes inversely proportional!
The more you mod it the more servicing becomes important and the intervals reduce so the running costs increase but if you can replace your own plugs etc this additional cost is minimal. As they get older and older one off large costs (turbo's suspension overhaul etc) are more likely but also with age the rough ones become easier to spot.
I think you don't see many as they aren't actually that many compared to most marques but also fewer and fewer are daily drives. They are 'saved' for weekend blats etc or are simply too expensive for the daily commute.
Stock supras can hit very high mileages 150K miles on the original clutch/turbo's and ancillaries, but an unloved 60K miler that someone cranks up to 1.2 bar could lunch it's engine and leave you with a bill as much as the car cost..........It's been around so long now though that the common problems are well documented on the marque specific forums and so it's easy to do some preventative maintenance (eg crank pulley replacement) and to check for soon to be problems on a possible purchase (no/luke warm heater = heater matrix and big bills)
I cannot recommend the stock supra enough for performance in the under £10K bracket you just need to have an eye for the well kept and not totally abused ones and if you find one and can resist tweaking it yourself it will provide cheap (again bar fuel costs) reliable and fast motoring. Most can't leave them alone and either thrive on the diy aspects or the quest for 'just a bit more' power and this is where the financial costs can spiral and the amount it's actually used often becomes inversely proportional!
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