When to move on an ageing car, that is otherwise fab, E46 M3
Discussion
Hi all,
In a way a nice dilema. Have owned a 2004 E46 M3 SMG for 3 years, had it since 20k now sat at 52k. Used at weekends and for holidays, but still clocks up a few miles. I store it under a cover and seldom use it over winter, just enough to keep in fresh on dry days.
Anyway, just had inspection 2 + fuel filter and coolant, and 4 new PS2 tyres. In last 12 months its had a new alternator, power steering hoses, RTABs and rear top mounts, diff seals all under (extended) warranty. So I was thinking I should keep going with what is a brilliant car for a couple more years. Brakes have done about 15k miles and are in good nick too...
During recent european trip however, [Nurburg-Slazburg-Verona-Monaco then Castellane for a few days in a Eurocamp (Verdon Gorges, France)] the car developed some mechanical vibration, and the ABS sensors failed on the last leg, giving me a dash full or warning lights. I presume all this is repairable but its previous bullet proof reliability was 'undermined'.
Since I use the car for long journeys like that (with family sometimes) reliablity is as important as fun factor.
I can just about afford to run an M3, but its a push, the new one (E92) is too dear and uses more fuel, so I struggle with the idea of selling for one of those with fuel and VED prices going up so much.
What has caught my imagination is the Focus RS. I could push out the investment cost a bit and get a brand new one, so full warranty etc, and I will know the car from the begining (I want to keep it a long time).
The M3 is just so good to drive I wonder if the FWD Ford will give that smile. Also the service and the tyres on the M3 cost £1800 so seems bonkers to sell it now, but I'm still toying with this.
What do my fellow PH's think? Bad idea to move from M3 - FRS? Bad timing having spent a lot recently on the M3 but a sensible idea generally?
FRS productiobn ceases in July...what other cars to consider if I miss it?
Can't decide
In a way a nice dilema. Have owned a 2004 E46 M3 SMG for 3 years, had it since 20k now sat at 52k. Used at weekends and for holidays, but still clocks up a few miles. I store it under a cover and seldom use it over winter, just enough to keep in fresh on dry days.
Anyway, just had inspection 2 + fuel filter and coolant, and 4 new PS2 tyres. In last 12 months its had a new alternator, power steering hoses, RTABs and rear top mounts, diff seals all under (extended) warranty. So I was thinking I should keep going with what is a brilliant car for a couple more years. Brakes have done about 15k miles and are in good nick too...
During recent european trip however, [Nurburg-Slazburg-Verona-Monaco then Castellane for a few days in a Eurocamp (Verdon Gorges, France)] the car developed some mechanical vibration, and the ABS sensors failed on the last leg, giving me a dash full or warning lights. I presume all this is repairable but its previous bullet proof reliability was 'undermined'.
Since I use the car for long journeys like that (with family sometimes) reliablity is as important as fun factor.
I can just about afford to run an M3, but its a push, the new one (E92) is too dear and uses more fuel, so I struggle with the idea of selling for one of those with fuel and VED prices going up so much.
What has caught my imagination is the Focus RS. I could push out the investment cost a bit and get a brand new one, so full warranty etc, and I will know the car from the begining (I want to keep it a long time).
The M3 is just so good to drive I wonder if the FWD Ford will give that smile. Also the service and the tyres on the M3 cost £1800 so seems bonkers to sell it now, but I'm still toying with this.
What do my fellow PH's think? Bad idea to move from M3 - FRS? Bad timing having spent a lot recently on the M3 but a sensible idea generally?
FRS productiobn ceases in July...what other cars to consider if I miss it?
Can't decide
Edited by Davidonly on Sunday 13th June 11:14
Edited by Davidonly on Sunday 13th June 11:14
A new car will give you a certain cashflow which is helpful, as nobody likes an unexpected bill. However, i'd wager that the depreciation on a new car (even if RS prices tend to be much better than other Fords) will outweigh the maintenance costs on your M3.
If you really love your M3 i'd pay the money on the best warranty/breakdown cover you can find and keep it. If you just want a new car then fair enough, but I don't think it's a great idea to do it for the finances...
Which one is a better drive? Unfortunately i don't have a clue!
If you really love your M3 i'd pay the money on the best warranty/breakdown cover you can find and keep it. If you just want a new car then fair enough, but I don't think it's a great idea to do it for the finances...
Which one is a better drive? Unfortunately i don't have a clue!
Hi Rob,
thanks for a that quick reply. I agree that the depreciation costs will be high on a new car, higher than the costs on an older car of keeping it going. It's always a problem deciding when to sell unless yor hand is forced, but I am a long way from MOT failure here thankfully!!
I suppose then, the fun factor is the key. I anticipate a reduction in the purity of the experience, going from a RWD M Powered Beemer to an highpower but FWD Ford, but a few reviews and other comments I have seen suggest the FRS is a great drivers car despite its configuration.
Image is another thing, but I decided in the Ford is not too ASBO in blue!
thanks for a that quick reply. I agree that the depreciation costs will be high on a new car, higher than the costs on an older car of keeping it going. It's always a problem deciding when to sell unless yor hand is forced, but I am a long way from MOT failure here thankfully!!
I suppose then, the fun factor is the key. I anticipate a reduction in the purity of the experience, going from a RWD M Powered Beemer to an highpower but FWD Ford, but a few reviews and other comments I have seen suggest the FRS is a great drivers car despite its configuration.
Image is another thing, but I decided in the Ford is not too ASBO in blue!
Edited by Davidonly on Sunday 13th June 11:27
If you don't really want to lose the M3 magic, why not sell/px your current one and buy another, approved used, E46 M3? It'll have the BMW warranty so you've got peace of mind there, and if you always wanted that red leather/bigger wheels/television etc it's a chance to grab some new toys.
Just a suggestion.
edit: slight clarification
Just a suggestion.
edit: slight clarification
Edited by sebhaque on Sunday 13th June 11:34
Have to agree with Rob_F
A boosted Volvo engine is not particularly economical! If you want a fast Ford it must have those 8 letters on the back beginning with C.
Bit of lateral thinking, if you want something that should hold it's value or appreciate why not look at an E30 or Escort Cossie? If you just want a thrill then there is a world of Caterhams, Westfield etc as well.
Depends really what you want from a car
A boosted Volvo engine is not particularly economical! If you want a fast Ford it must have those 8 letters on the back beginning with C.
Bit of lateral thinking, if you want something that should hold it's value or appreciate why not look at an E30 or Escort Cossie? If you just want a thrill then there is a world of Caterhams, Westfield etc as well.
Depends really what you want from a car
Have you booked a test-drive in the RS yet? There is, of course, the issue of going from a sublime 'M' engine to forced induction. Not an issue for some, I agree but after going from my E39 M5 to a Focus ST (Bluefin mapped), I realised I'd grown out of turbo power.
An E46 M3 will most probably be my next car. Can't get enough of those engines!
An E46 M3 will most probably be my next car. Can't get enough of those engines!
50k miles - its barely run in!
Keep it and find a decent garage to look after it, whatever you do, dont take it to bmw main dealers at that age its a huge waste of money.
Focus supposed to be good but its image would put me off, there is one on my road and every time I see it parked their it just looks silly, it looks like they got the styling from Halfords boy racer departemnt.
Keep it and find a decent garage to look after it, whatever you do, dont take it to bmw main dealers at that age its a huge waste of money.
Focus supposed to be good but its image would put me off, there is one on my road and every time I see it parked their it just looks silly, it looks like they got the styling from Halfords boy racer departemnt.
It sounds like no brainer to me.
I'm sorry but no matter how good and fast FOR A FWD FAMILY HATCH the RS will be - that's all what it is. A very fast, family hatch which looks like it went through halfords.
And then on the other hand you have one of the best looking, best driving, best engined RWD sports coupe.
The RS will loose more of its value as soon as you'll take it out of the dealership than your M3 will cost in maintenance in a long time.
You've spent some money on it already, just spend some more and enjoy a very good car that will make you smile everytime you drive it.
Don't go to the dealership with every job, find a good indy and save loads. Or start servicing it yourself.
Abs sensor replacement is a 30min job. A very easy DIY too. Just go to an indy with a BMW fault reader and it will show you exactly which one is faulty.
Then all it is is to take the wheel off, disconnect the sensor, undo two bolts, put the new one in, put the whell back on and you're done!
You can also get it cheap on ebay, eurocarparts and many others.
Sometimes all you have to do is wiggle and clean it a bit and it starts working fine again.
I would never ever even consider swapping an M3 for an RS. I don't know what you do, but I would be embarrassed arriving to a business meeting in an RS.
I'm sorry but no matter how good and fast FOR A FWD FAMILY HATCH the RS will be - that's all what it is. A very fast, family hatch which looks like it went through halfords.
And then on the other hand you have one of the best looking, best driving, best engined RWD sports coupe.
The RS will loose more of its value as soon as you'll take it out of the dealership than your M3 will cost in maintenance in a long time.
You've spent some money on it already, just spend some more and enjoy a very good car that will make you smile everytime you drive it.
Don't go to the dealership with every job, find a good indy and save loads. Or start servicing it yourself.
Abs sensor replacement is a 30min job. A very easy DIY too. Just go to an indy with a BMW fault reader and it will show you exactly which one is faulty.
Then all it is is to take the wheel off, disconnect the sensor, undo two bolts, put the new one in, put the whell back on and you're done!
You can also get it cheap on ebay, eurocarparts and many others.
Sometimes all you have to do is wiggle and clean it a bit and it starts working fine again.
I would never ever even consider swapping an M3 for an RS. I don't know what you do, but I would be embarrassed arriving to a business meeting in an RS.
ManOpener said:
RB26DETT said:
Or a Sierra Cosworth ?? It's a Ford at the end ofthe day so won't cost much to repair and will never depriciate.
Looks lovely in Magenta Red with RS Softlunes.
I thought engine parts were a nightmare to find for the YB motors?Looks lovely in Magenta Red with RS Softlunes.
There is alot with rebuilt engines so they would be a safe bet, plenty of these around with 120k plus on them.
If OP could find one that has had a rebuilt engine with receipts and no
rust then it would be worth a gamble.
RB26DETT said:
ManOpener said:
RB26DETT said:
Or a Sierra Cosworth ?? It's a Ford at the end ofthe day so won't cost much to repair and will never depriciate.
Looks lovely in Magenta Red with RS Softlunes.
I thought engine parts were a nightmare to find for the YB motors?Looks lovely in Magenta Red with RS Softlunes.
There is alot with rebuilt engines so they would be a safe bet, plenty of these around with 120k plus on them.
If OP could find one that has had a rebuilt engine with receipts and no
rust then it would be worth a gamble.
OP is considering to move from 50k 2004 car to a NEW CAR to save on maintenance, also he regularly does long european journey, wants something reliable, he services his car in dealership and you recommend a 20yo Sierra??
RB320 Impreza? Little depreciation and won't have previous Chavez owners. Faster than your current M3 and extremely fun to drive.
Bit out if left field but worth a look. It actually has a better interior than the FRS which is very cheap and also servicing from Subaru specialists is very good.
Bit out if left field but worth a look. It actually has a better interior than the FRS which is very cheap and also servicing from Subaru specialists is very good.
Edited by Ved on Sunday 13th June 12:19
Well I did read the OP. He wanted to go to a FastFord that was FWD. So I recomended a proper FastFord that was RWD. It was just a tought, and you would pick up a mint up for 7k, so that leaves money over for unexpected bills. Instead of tying yourself down to finance on a new RS costing over 20k.
Still a daft suggestion IMO, as well as running costs there is the aspect of the car being off the road for some time, having to find a specialist etc. what happens if it lets you down on the road and so on.
I see you're a ford fan but put that aside, the guy wants a new car, not a 20 yr old car that could cause him all sorts of problems. The OP wasn't (I assume) after any ford that was fast but a Focus in particular (prob as it's new!).
I see you're a ford fan but put that aside, the guy wants a new car, not a 20 yr old car that could cause him all sorts of problems. The OP wasn't (I assume) after any ford that was fast but a Focus in particular (prob as it's new!).
Edited by Dracoro on Sunday 13th June 12:35
Dracoro said:
Still a daft suggestion IMO, as well as running costs there is the aspect of the car being off the road for some time, having to find a specialist etc. what happens if it lets you down on the road and so on.
I see you're a ford fan but put that
aside, the guy wants a new car, not a 20 yr old car that could cause him all
sorts of problems. The OP wasn't (I assume) after any ford that was fast
but a Focus in particular (prob as it's new!).
Just a leftfield choice. I see you're a ford fan but put that
aside, the guy wants a new car, not a 20 yr old car that could cause him all
sorts of problems. The OP wasn't (I assume) after any ford that was fast
but a Focus in particular (prob as it's new!).
Edited by Dracoro on Sunday 13th June 12:35
Hey everyone, I truely appreciate the feedback and the debate is most interesting! I have been keeping the warranty going on the M3 and the BMW Emergency Service cover since I got it. That means I am stuck with dealers at present, however a watershed approaches at 60k miles when the cost of cover leaps up and they exclude suspension too . At that point I'll probably stop renewing the cover (gulp).
If I keep the M3 and its most likely I will, your comments have reinforced my own views about the types or vehicle I am comparing, I will have to find a good indy to look after it and bank some funds for rainy days.
Ideally I'll ensure there are no major threats this summer (warranty goes to April 2011), including getting to grips with the 'vibration' the car developed (I have a post in MPower on that), then hold onto her for another 3 years or so.
I guess an E46M3 should be good for 80k....(the RS would just be ticking over 30k by then). The problem by then will look different as the M3 will actually be 'old'. God knows what the legislators will have done to proper motors by then
. At that point I'll probably stop renewing the cover (gulp).If I keep the M3 and its most likely I will, your comments have reinforced my own views about the types or vehicle I am comparing, I will have to find a good indy to look after it and bank some funds for rainy days.
Ideally I'll ensure there are no major threats this summer (warranty goes to April 2011), including getting to grips with the 'vibration' the car developed (I have a post in MPower on that), then hold onto her for another 3 years or so.
I guess an E46M3 should be good for 80k....(the RS would just be ticking over 30k by then). The problem by then will look different as the M3 will actually be 'old'. God knows what the legislators will have done to proper motors by then
You mention:
1) You could push finances a bit to buy the RS
2) What cars to suggest other than the RS?
If the "newer car" factor is a big one, depending on how far the finances stretch, a year old 335ci M Sport could be had for under 30k now. With an extened warranty this could be covered for the next 4 or 5 years, with reasonably low running costs. Depreciation would be on a par with the Focus, maybe? Fuel, tyres etc similar too I'd imagine.
Still, I'd do as others have already said: keep the M3 and use an Indy specialist for future servicing or work.
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