Most fun of a car for little money & driving experience

[ERDi]

Hi gents!

As this is my first post on this fantastic forum, let me introduce myself.
My name is Jan, I am an 22-year old German residenced near Frankfurt am Main, who is hopefully becoming a bachelor and then master of mechanical and process engineering somewhen the next years.

What I am looking for is advice about which car my friends and I, as being regular Citroen C1, VW Polo, Golf or Honda Civic R drivers, should be looking for when willing to spend some of our money on a shared little weekend car as well as one to gain some track experience with.

All of us being petrolheads and having family & friends being some as well have at least copiloted(if not driven on our own) the likes of AC Cobra (original historic one) as well as replicas, Lamborghini Gallardo, Aston Martin Vanquish, MB CLS500, Ford GT40, Porsche 911 as well as some delicious Bugatti, AC and Morgan oldtimers.
So we're definitely not after a Golf GTI, S3, tuned Series-1 BMW or Mini like the rich kids.
It is more the likes of Ariel Atom, Caterham R500/CSR260, Ultima GTR and Loti on steroids we fall in love with.
Ofc we are WAY! too inexperienced, poor and positive about live to kill ourselves with rockets like that, but there must be some lovely, quick and affordable(not only bargain but fuel, parts, insurance...) purist cars which might be the right ones for us to grow a little further as drivers and mechanics.

Thrilled for your suggestions

Jan

Edited by ERDi on Saturday 26th June 10:18

[nsmith1180]

Guten Morgen und herzlich willkommen!

Thats the extent of my German unless you can give me a beer!

Simple, purists cars, Caterham/Westfield or a kit equivalent. If you are looking for something with a few more comforts, an S1 or S2 elise may be getting towards affordable. now too.

HTH

Nick

[Kinky]

MX-5

[rottie102]

...I was just looking at this little bad boy:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1991-TOYOTA-MR2-BLACK-gt-t-b...

[ERDi]

I have to admit the Loti (counting 7 based Caterham/Westfield as Loti) please my eye a lot more than 994 and MR2, which look like brick stones next to those fragile beauties.
Might be nonsensens as I am sure they are great cars, but what makes them as well as the MX-5 better beginners cars than the Loti in your opinion? Solely the price?

Edited by ERDi on Saturday 26th June 10:43

[H_Kan]

Mk1 MX5 with supercharger.

Cheap to buy, run and easy to learn about the dynamics of driving rwd in them.

[neil_bolton]

MX5 - no need for a supercharger - you'll be too busy sliding round corners to care.

[ERDi]

What does MK1 mean? Doesn't seem to be a common notation for German MX5...
What specs should I look for in a MX5?
Any known weak spots? What maximum of milage?

[DozyGit]

ERDi said:

What does MK1 mean? Doesn't seem to be a common notation for German MX5...
What specs should I look for in a MX5?
Any known weak spots? What maximum of milage?

MK1 is Mark 1 or early model with pop up lights 1991 to 1996 I think

Go for a 1992 or so, with 1.6L 116bhp engine, no abs, no airbag model

If 1991 check for short nose crank and avoid it (google for short nose crank failures)
Check for rust in wheel arches etc
1.6 used to come in 116bhp and 90bhp (for UK) check and see German specs

Maximum mileage, people have 100,000miles with no engine issues, but get as low as you can.

Change the suspension bushings, all to Poly and get new dampers/springs ;-)

[pbirkett]

neil_bolton said:

MX5 - no need for a supercharger - you'll be too busy sliding round corners to care.

+1

Mine was supercharged, now its not. Its just as much fun as it was before. In fact possibly more fun as you now have to actually drive it rather than wafting around on the torque like I used to when it was 'charged.

Only thing I miss slightly is the slug of midrange power for overtaking, but even then, its not THAT hard to overtake in an MX-5.

Best thing about them being standard is they are utterly unburstable.

[ERDi]

Thanks for all the comments and warm welcomes!

I fear being an arse right from the beginning, but somehow the MX5 doesn't really get me.
My Mum has a MK1 Mini Cooper S with a supercharged 163PS engine (is it bhp in the UK?) and I though that would be the minimum pace my friends and I were looking for.
Yes we are young, defo not experienced track drivers and have only driven for about 60k miles each, but all of us have been to ADAC(biggest German car club) driving schools as well as other security trainings, we do have some regular carting going on and none of us is interested in either killing himself and/or others by risky maneuvers on public roads.
Looking at our budget, actually all of us are really pumped to finally get a car to have some nice weekends on tracks with and also enjoying the winding roads of our local low mountain range, but we never set an actual limit.
Just a little sketch, we are 4 to 6 people, each spending 5k€ would make approximately £20k, shouldn't we get something purer, quicker and more unique than a MX5 for that?


EDIT:
This for example looks really nice to me:
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...

Edited by ERDi on Saturday 26th June 12:25

[GravelBen]

DozyGit said:

If 1991 check for short nose crank and avoid it (google for short nose crank failures)
Check for rust in wheel arches etc
1.6 used to come in 116bhp and 90bhp (for UK) check and see German specs

Maximum mileage, people have 100,000miles with no engine issues, but get as low as you can.

Change the suspension bushings, all to Poly and get new dampers/springs ;-)

The short nose crank issue is blown out of proportion by the internet, is really not a common in failure - in fact a mechanic on the NZ MX5 forum said he'd seen more MX5's with long nose crank failures than short ones!

100k? People have double that mileage and still going strong as well, they're mechanically strong and simple enough that not much goes wrong.

[rottie102]

This sounds much more fun
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...

[DozyGit]

GravelBen said:

The short nose crank issue is blown out of proportion by the internet, is really not a common in failure - in fact a mechanic on the NZ MX5 forum said he'd seen more MX5's with long nose crank failures than short ones!

100k? People have double that mileage and still going strong as well, they're mechanically strong and simple enough that not much goes wrong.

Well here in the UK the short nose crank cars are nearly 2/3 price, so you can get a good deal I suppose!

100K is fine for the engine, maybe 150K or even 200K, but what about the rest of the car. Here in the UK the roads are bad, with lots of potholes and rough tarmac. This means the suspension is ruined and the rest of the shell suffers from constant flexing and the car creaks and groans with age, the trim works itself loose with time. This means the car feels shagged, with high mileage and suspension is expensive to replace

[H_Kan]

ERDi said:

Thanks for all the comments and warm welcomes!

I fear being an arse right from the beginning, but somehow the MX5 doesn't really get me.
My Mum has a MK1 Mini Cooper S with a supercharged 163PS engine (is it bhp in the UK?) and I though that would be the minimum pace my friends and I were looking for.
Yes we are young, defo not experienced track drivers and have only driven for about 60k miles each, but all of us have been to ADAC(biggest German car club) driving schools as well as other security trainings, we do have some regular carting going on and none of us is interested in either killing himself and/or others by risky maneuvers on public roads.
Looking at our budget, actually all of us are really pumped to finally get a car to have some nice weekends on tracks with and also enjoying the winding roads of our local low mountain range, but we never set an actual limit.
Just a little sketch, we are 4 to 6 people, each spending 5k€ would make approximately £20k, shouldn't we get something purer, quicker and more unique than a MX5 for that?


EDIT:
This for example looks really nice to me:
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...

Edited by ERDi on Saturday 26th June 12:25

I'd be wary of putting multiple K into a joint ownership with this number of people- arguments and fallouts are going to be almost inevitable.

If you've 5k to put in, I'd imagine you'd get yourself a decent track toy for yourself.

[nsmith1180]

If 4 of you put in 5k euro, current exchange rate gives you £16437.67

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...

Superlight!

Get two more onboard and you are in to an R500.

[ERDi]

Just sent a mail to one of the German partners of Caterham, really interested in a DR300, for my own.

[ERDi]

Did not yet receive an answer...

Am looking at this beauty at the moment, looks like a very nicely build Supersport you could specwise also put a Superlight badge on:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1873168.htm

For a new one I was going to book a LSD, a dry sump, lowered floors and the weather gear, LSD and weather gear are included, but what about dry sump and lowered floors, are they mentioned in a way me as a non native does not get it or does it look like those features are not included?

Apart from that on a quick look, do you see anything wrong with it or should I book a flight and have a closer look at it?

Edited by ERDi on Sunday 18th July 16:06

[Variel]

I'll throw my support in for a Mark 2 MR2 Turbo. Light, mid engined, rear wheel drive, turbo'd, seriously tuneable and cheap.

[Wadeski]

Westfield. Youre engineers, so build one.