Wednesday 4th August 2010

PH Fleet Update: Land Rover Defender

We go off-piste in our Landie - and next time you can join us!

---

'Er, this isn't the A481...'

I have always harboured a bit of a phobia about off-roading. It's not that I don't like clambering over the muddy stuff; more that I'm unaccountably nervous of breaking whatever it is I happen to be driving.

It's all a bit odd, really, because I have no such fear on a track, where you're probably much more likely to do some mischief to brakes/clutch/gearbox/suspension - depending on the level of your over-enthusiasm and at what speed something goes wrong.

Looks tame; feels terrifying

Even so, I have tended to look at merely moderately knobbly tracks with a sort of horrified paranoia. What if I get the car beached? What if it sinks into a peat bog? What if I get a boulder caught on the rear axle and it rips a wheel off?

But you can't run a car whose erstwhile strap line was 'the best 4x4 by far' without taking it off the blacktop. So it was in the best spirit of facing my fears that I headed off to deepest Herefordshire the other week with editor Chris-R and Garlick as my passengers.

Government denies potholes problem

After a surprisingly comfortable journey up the M4 and A419 in the Defender - you are buffeted about a bit and it's not what you'd call refined, but for a design that is essentially getting into its eighth decade it's actually perfectly tolerable - we arrived at Land Rover's Eastnor Castle experience centre.

Eastnor is a stunning estate of 5000 acres with 30 miles of managed off-road trails and runs to suit every level of ability and off-road nervousness. After a bit of bargaining with Chris and Garlick, (both of whom are much more confident in the rough than me) I managed to persuade them to go for what the instructors called a 'trundle around the estate' - the simplest and gentlest of off-road routes - as I had a sneaking suspicion that this would still involve what to me would look like death-defying scrambles over ground I would hardly dare walk on.

Garlick says he's calm, but his hands say not

So it proved. We almost immediately plunged into a network of deeply rutted tracks, angled slopes, one-in-three gradients, and three-foot-deep mini rivers. But it was not terrifying; it was deeply, deeply brilliant.

The Landie made you feel as though you were tackling an Amazonian rain forest (albeit one inexplicably populated with brambles, oaks and stinging nettles) while at the same time never giving the slightest indication that it was anything other than entirely capable of dealing with the situation.

And so it should have been because - as the Land Rover instructor who led us around in a Discovery 3 pointed out - our course could have been dealt with by a Freelander. Or a Porsche Cayenne or BMW X5 on road tyres for that matter. Which is as much an indicator of how much further off-road a Defender could go as it is an eye-opener as to how capable even soft-roaders are in the muddy stuff.

But what really blows the mind of an off-road novice such as myself is just how much you have to adjust your mindset, even on the 'nursery slopes' off-road route that we took. The car can do it - and with consummate ease - the trick is telling yourself that you can too.

Once I got my head around it, I found that off-roading is a deeply satisfying experience. So as we headed back down the M4 to the Big Smoke, and with my green-lane cherry popped with an afternoon's driving under my belt, I wanted to go back for more.

Fortunately, the fine people at Eastnor Castle Land Rover experience centre are going to let us do just that - and you can join in the muddy fun, too. Details below...

Get muddy with the PH team at Eastnor Castle

On Saturday 28 August Land Rover Eastnor Castle is throwing open its doors to PH, with 24 PH-shaped off-road spaces available for a day's clambering.

For £199 you'll get a chance to drive at least two models of Land Rover's range on a day filled with rocks, ravines, inclines and deep water - all guided (of course) by LR's expert instructors.

This being a PistonHeads event, bacon sandwiches will also be on offer, and you'll be able to meet the PH team, as we'll be joining in the fun in our very own PH fleet Defender (We know - that's an offer that's almost impossible to resist...).

We'll bring you more details on the PH off-road event of 2010 - including details of how to book your place - soon, so watch this space! (well, not this one, but the PH home page...)

 

[Mike69]

Great vehicles. My work hired a small fleet of them last winter, after our usual vehicles were rendered entirely useless by the heavy snow.

Even in the worst conditions, they never once gave the impression that they were even coming close to the edge of their envelope.

I wasn't overwhelmed by the heaters though.

[pugwash4x4]

Can we bring out own 4x4s to try on the course?

Someone should probably show you lot how its properly done!

[OnTheOverrun]

I always enjoy taking off-road virgins out for their first taste and watching the terror turn to excitement. Except the group I took out for a play at Avon Dassett quarry years ago when I ended up dropping my 90 on it's side and them having to crawl out into the mud before we stuck it back on it's wheels. Oddly they didn't want another go.

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

[rhinochopig]

OnTheOverrun said:

I always enjoy taking off-road virgins out for their first taste and watching the terror turn to excitement. Except the group I took out for a play at Avon Dassett quarry years ago when I ended up dropping my 90 on it's side and them having to crawl out into the mud before we stuck it back on it's wheels. Oddly they didn't want another go.

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

Ah, but the fan-boys will never hear a bad word about them. The build quality really isn't good enough for what they charge. And yes I've owned one and I use them for work.

[LHD]

I'm there later this year with work.

For free.

Can't wait.

[pugwash4x4]

OnTheOverrun said:

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

i've had 11 i think- and recently moved to a landcruiser. Its depressing to see the build quality over LRs

[the Fantom]

Love those photos - great work.

[farmeryellow]

For some of us its just another day at the office!

[Garlick]

I am hanging on a little bit too tightly in that photo....

As for the PH LR day, you can't drive your own cars at this stage, but that is an idea being discussed for the future. That said, the LRE day at Eastnor is a fantastic day out and I hope that some of you fancy joining us there.

[OnTheOverrun]

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I always enjoy taking off-road virgins out for their first taste and watching the terror turn to excitement. Except the group I took out for a play at Avon Dassett quarry years ago when I ended up dropping my 90 on it's side and them having to crawl out into the mud before we stuck it back on it's wheels. Oddly they didn't want another go.

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

Ah, but the fan-boys will never hear a bad word about them. The build quality really isn't good enough for what they charge. And yes I've owned one and I use them for work.

And the haters will never hear a good word about them yet they can sell as many as they can build, resale values put a BMW or Lexus to shame, according to the SMMT a higher percentage of LR's ever built are still in use than any other make. I guess there's a lot of fanboys out there who just buy them for illogical patriotic reasons, like the US Rangers. . . . .

[RichardR]

Completely O/T, and I'm being really pernickety here, but I think the extra spots on the front bumper would look much better in front of the radiator grill rather that between the headlamps and the outer edge of the bumper.

So more like this (albeit without the 'roo bar)...

[rhinochopig]

OnTheOverrun said:

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I always enjoy taking off-road virgins out for their first taste and watching the terror turn to excitement. Except the group I took out for a play at Avon Dassett quarry years ago when I ended up dropping my 90 on it's side and them having to crawl out into the mud before we stuck it back on it's wheels. Oddly they didn't want another go.

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

Ah, but the fan-boys will never hear a bad word about them. The build quality really isn't good enough for what they charge. And yes I've owned one and I use them for work.

And the haters will never hear a good word about them yet they can sell as many as they can build, resale values put a BMW or Lexus to shame, according to the SMMT a higher percentage of LR's ever built are still in use than any other make. I guess there's a lot of fanboys out there who just buy them for illogical patriotic reasons, like the US Rangers. . . . .

Well I consider myself to have a reasonably balanced opinion of them. They are a superb off-road vehicle, are a very adaptable basic design, and the build quality is very very poor IME. The chassis coatings are truly dreadful for the price you pay for one. You shouldn't have to do your own undersealing on a 30-40k vehicle - especially an off-roader.

[OnTheOverrun]

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

i've had 11 i think- and recently moved to a landcruiser. Its depressing to see the build quality over LRs

I had a LC 80 series for a while when I lived in France. It was definitely better built than a Defender and more powerful, but it cost twice as much so I'd expect it to be frankly. I also broke two front diffs and had to have the big end bearings done at only 80,000 miles, something I've never managed with any of the LR's I've owned but nonetheless a decent vehicle.

[OnTheOverrun]

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I always enjoy taking off-road virgins out for their first taste and watching the terror turn to excitement. Except the group I took out for a play at Avon Dassett quarry years ago when I ended up dropping my 90 on it's side and them having to crawl out into the mud before we stuck it back on it's wheels. Oddly they didn't want another go.

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

Ah, but the fan-boys will never hear a bad word about them. The build quality really isn't good enough for what they charge. And yes I've owned one and I use them for work.

And the haters will never hear a good word about them yet they can sell as many as they can build, resale values put a BMW or Lexus to shame, according to the SMMT a higher percentage of LR's ever built are still in use than any other make. I guess there's a lot of fanboys out there who just buy them for illogical patriotic reasons, like the US Rangers. . . . .

Well I consider myself to have a reasonably balanced opinion of them. They are a superb off-road vehicle, are a very adaptable basic design, and the build quality is very very poor IME. The chassis coatings are truly dreadful for the price you pay for one. You shouldn't have to do your own undersealing on a 30-40k vehicle - especially an off-roader.

Well of course you should - if you're using for what it was designed for you'll be regularly scraping the underseal off - they haven't invented underseal that stays put when you scrape your chassis against rocks as far as I'm aware. That's what the oil leaks are for.

[infradig]

I Love Land Rovers,learnt to drive in the family S1 when I was 10 and have always had at least one of Solihuls finest around,and hopefully always will have.I have spent many pleasant hours digging out,pushing and towing various Landies out of holes,ditches and rivers over the last 35 years all part of the fun of 'offroading' as are the relaxing evenings spent repairing these precision built high quality examples of the engineers art.

But I am quite cynical about the Land Rover Experience. It is a very carefully calculated marketing tool to make those people who are thinking of buying or have just bought a 'Lifestyle Accessory' feel good about their decision. As stated in the article pretty much any 4x4 could comfortably go around the Eastnor course,but the press including PH still think some pictures of a bit of mud and water make a Defender look invincible,no doubt when the 2wd Freelander appears all Experience courses will have a dramatic looking route for them too. That said,anything that gets owners to get a bit daring and dirty is to be applauded I suppose.

[pugwash4x4]

OnTheOverrun said:

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

i've had 11 i think- and recently moved to a landcruiser. Its depressing to see the build quality over LRs

I had a LC 80 series for a while when I lived in France. It was definitely better built than a Defender and more powerful, but it cost twice as much so I'd expect it to be frankly. I also broke two front diffs and had to have the big end bearings done at only 80,000 miles, something I've never managed with any of the LR's I've owned but nonetheless a decent vehicle.

LC80 should really be compared to a classic range rover- which cost 3 times as much as a defender!

Big end bearings are the only known weakness (although 80k is very very early). have also done a front diff. But then again it doesn't have any rust, all the bolts undo, the drivetrain (bar the BEBs) willl last half a million miles, and they body won't rust.

Its actually really depressing- Classic range rovers "should" be far better vehicles- more interesting, better suspension, more "heart". but they are so enduringly badly built that once you go to a Landcruiser you won't go back! Still a LR fnaboy at heart (if i had the readies i'd buy a D3 TDV6 in a shot), but until they sort out the built problems i'm staying away.

[OnTheOverrun]

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

i've had 11 i think- and recently moved to a landcruiser. Its depressing to see the build quality over LRs

I had a LC 80 series for a while when I lived in France. It was definitely better built than a Defender and more powerful, but it cost twice as much so I'd expect it to be frankly. I also broke two front diffs and had to have the big end bearings done at only 80,000 miles, something I've never managed with any of the LR's I've owned but nonetheless a decent vehicle.

LC80 should really be compared to a classic range rover- which cost 3 times as much as a defender!

Big end bearings are the only known weakness (although 80k is very very early). have also done a front diff. But then again it doesn't have any rust, all the bolts undo, the drivetrain (bar the BEBs) willl last half a million miles, and they body won't rust.

Its actually really depressing- Classic range rovers "should" be far better vehicles- more interesting, better suspension, more "heart". but they are so enduringly badly built that once you go to a Landcruiser you won't go back! Still a LR fnaboy at heart (if i had the readies i'd buy a D3 TDV6 in a shot), but until they sort out the built problems i'm staying away.

Well they're not going to sort out the problems on classic RR's now are they?

My LC really put me off them - I only really used it for towing and it still let me down more than the 110 I overlanded across north africa in three times that had 115,000 miles on it and the big plus for overlanding was being able to get 25mpg out of the 110 versus 17 for the LC. That's a hell of a lot of extra fuel you don't have to carry.

[pugwash4x4]

OnTheOverrun said:

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

pugwash4x4 said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Anyway, I'm sure the usual LR haters will be along to bh about them despite never having owned one. . . . . . . .

i've had 11 i think- and recently moved to a landcruiser. Its depressing to see the build quality over LRs

I had a LC 80 series for a while when I lived in France. It was definitely better built than a Defender and more powerful, but it cost twice as much so I'd expect it to be frankly. I also broke two front diffs and had to have the big end bearings done at only 80,000 miles, something I've never managed with any of the LR's I've owned but nonetheless a decent vehicle.

LC80 should really be compared to a classic range rover- which cost 3 times as much as a defender!

Big end bearings are the only known weakness (although 80k is very very early). have also done a front diff. But then again it doesn't have any rust, all the bolts undo, the drivetrain (bar the BEBs) willl last half a million miles, and they body won't rust.

Its actually really depressing- Classic range rovers "should" be far better vehicles- more interesting, better suspension, more "heart". but they are so enduringly badly built that once you go to a Landcruiser you won't go back! Still a LR fnaboy at heart (if i had the readies i'd buy a D3 TDV6 in a shot), but until they sort out the built problems i'm staying away.

Well they're not going to sort out the problems on classic RR's now are they?

My LC really put me off them - I only really used it for towing and it still let me down more than the 110 I overlanded across north africa in three times that had 115,000 miles on it and the big plus for overlanding was being able to get 25mpg out of the 110 versus 17 for the LC. That's a hell of a lot of extra fuel you don't have to carry.

You must have had a bad one- they are quite rare (although not unheard of). My 160k mile LC80 averaged 21.8mpg over 6k miles of north africa (fully loaded and prepped for overlanding, rarely on tarmac). Best one of the TD5s in the group got was 25, the other 2 110s got 23.2. And we aren't comparing apples with apples- all 80 series are at least 13 years old- you have ot be quite brave to take the equivalent 13 yr old LR or Range rover.

[Oddball RS]

Knowing next to nothing about 4x4's but i think in this day and age the chassis should be galvanised shouldnt it?

Most manufacturers with 'issues' on any part such as shell, chassis have done this for years haven't they?

[varsas]

Yes please, have been thinking about doing this anyway.

As for the 'own car 4x4 day' I would be well up for that (although you'd better let me go last so that when my old S3 breaks down I won't be holding everyone up!).