Which sporty but economical auto would you choose?

[daveknott5]

Thinking my next car will be one of these. Which one gets the PH vote of confidence?!

[sinizter]

Either of the BMWs for me. Have voted for the 335D. But it would depend on how much performance you actually want/need.

[davepoth]

Obviously if you want to bait Veyrons get the 335d and get it mapped.

[frosted]

Wow , your comparing a 40k car to 22k car . At least the depreciation curve will be sloppy rather than steep on a 335 d

[RobM77]

I voted for the BMW, because the others are very dull front wheel drive cars (I'm not saying FWD is dull I'm saying that those examples aren't that great). However, the last time I tried a BMW auto box it was dreadful, and I much prefer the Merc ones that I've tried. I can't vouch for the 335d in particular though because I haven't driven one, thus the vote for that.

edited to say: I've just spotted the Golf GTi DSG on there That appeals much more than a slush box RWD car. I'd have to drive both, but the Golf GTi is definitely worth considering, purely because it's not really an auto.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 4th August 15:26

[peterg1955]

I had a BMW 330d Touring automatic and it wasn't exactly economical compared to what the others will give as a DSG box will return manual gearbox figures.

The BMW I had averaged 32-33mpg in mixed motorway/country lane driving (and 24mpg towing a single seater to hillclimbs), our Golf GT TDi DSG averages 46 and returned 37mpg towing the same racecar.

I've seen other reports comparing the 330d manual and auto and the auto uses 25-30% more fuel on a given journey so if that is important the VAG cars will be a better option.

[aeropilot]

Has to be the 335d for me, being as an auto is the criteria.

However, I would have added the 335i, 135i and the 123d to the list as well as potential options.

[daveknott5]

peterg1955 said:

I had a BMW 330d Touring automatic and it wasn't exactly economical compared to what the others will give as a DSG box will return manual gearbox figures.

The BMW I had averaged 32-33mpg in mixed motorway/country lane driving (and 24mpg towing a single seater to hillclimbs), our Golf GT TDi DSG averages 46 and returned 37mpg towing the same racecar.

I've seen other reports comparing the 330d manual and auto and the auto uses 25-30% more fuel on a given journey so if that is important the VAG cars will be a better option.

Interesting - I thought the 330d auto would return around 38mpg all day long on a motorway run. Incidentally, although the 335d is a £40k car new, on the second hand market, they can be had for £20k - which is Scirocco money - hence why I've put them side by side as potential options. I guess I should also consider the Mk6 Golf GTD DSG then - but the four pot diesel sounds very tractor like compared to the six pot BMW diesels......

[aeropilot]

daveknott5 said:

I guess I should also consider the Mk6 Golf GTD DSG then - but the four pot diesel sounds very tractor like compared to the six pot BMW diesels......

Six pot diesel is better aurally, but, that's why I said don't discount the BMW 123d, as it's twin-turbo 4 pot diesel is a lot better than any of the single turbo 4-pot VAG diesels units.
Actually, the twin-turbo 4-pot diesel in the Saab 9-3 Aero TTid is a very good unit as well, and it has a nice chassis too, and I'd have one of those over a VAG product, even though the interior quality isn't up to VAG standards.
I was until recently looking at all same stuff as you, and was likely going to plump for a 330d Coupe auto or a 123d Coupe auto but circumstances have changed and I no longer need a car for commuting, so am now looking for something less practical

[Dracoro]

RobM77 said:

I voted for the BMW, because the others are very dull front wheel drive cars (I'm not saying FWD is dull I'm saying that those examples aren't that great). However, the last time I tried a BMW auto box it was dreadful, and I much prefer the Merc ones that I've tried. I can't vouch for the 335d in particular though because I haven't driven one, thus the vote for that.

edited to say: I've just spotted the Golf GTi DSG on there That appeals much more than a slush box RWD car. I'd have to drive both, but the Golf GTi is definitely worth considering, purely because it's not really an auto.

Odd comments given that all the non BMW cars are pretty much the same thing???

[RobM77]

Dracoro said:

RobM77 said:

I voted for the BMW, because the others are very dull front wheel drive cars (I'm not saying FWD is dull I'm saying that those examples aren't that great). However, the last time I tried a BMW auto box it was dreadful, and I much prefer the Merc ones that I've tried. I can't vouch for the 335d in particular though because I haven't driven one, thus the vote for that.

edited to say: I've just spotted the Golf GTi DSG on there That appeals much more than a slush box RWD car. I'd have to drive both, but the Golf GTi is definitely worth considering, purely because it's not really an auto.

Odd comments given that all the non BMW cars are pretty much the same thing???

Good point. Maybe they're set up differently though? I haven't had a thorough drive in them all, but judging by what I have experienced and by reviews, the Golf's the pick of the bunch.

I found voting hard, because for me it would come down to the DSG box vs BMW's full auto. The GTi that I drove had a manual box, and I've never even tried any DSG system.

[Monkeylegend]

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

[RobM77]

Monkeylegend said:

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

I haven't tried the latest BMW autos to compare, but from the older ones (2005) that I have tried, I much prefer the Merc auto boxes.

[Monkeylegend]

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

I haven't tried the latest BMW autos to compare, but from the older ones (2005) that I have tried, I much prefer the Merc auto boxes.

The sport versions have the additional paddle change on the steering wheel, not necessarily the quickest changing boxes but usually very smooth.Change the gearbox oil every 50k or so and they should be bullet proof. The latest versions also handle very well.The Merc would definately be my choice.

[daveknott5]

Hmm, a quick scan of the classifieds shows C320's starting at around £22k - which might just about be do-able. They still haven't shrugged off their slightly "old man" image though. The DSG Edition 30 appeals because the gearbox is effectively a manual without a foot driven clutch, + they are a lot cheaper to buy than the BMW/MERC options...... Only thing I'd be concerned about is the sometimes shocking VW aftersales service if there are any problems..... I do know that the MK5 Golf has suffered from rattling dashboards + leaks into the boot floor from the rear lights....

[RobM77]

Monkeylegend said:

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

I haven't tried the latest BMW autos to compare, but from the older ones (2005) that I have tried, I much prefer the Merc auto boxes.

The sport versions have the additional paddle change on the steering wheel, not necessarily the quickest changing boxes but usually very smooth.Change the gearbox oil every 50k or so and they should be bullet proof. The latest versions also handle very well.The Merc would definately be my choice.

The problem I had with the box was when used in full auto mode if you asked for power it would be about five seconds before you got any at all It would shuffle down a few gears, then raise the revs before finally delivering the power to the wheels. Very frustrating. The car was an X3 3.0, which is why I'm being a bit hesitant to comment on all BMW auto boxes, because I'm guessing a 3 series may work differently.

[Monkeylegend]

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

I haven't tried the latest BMW autos to compare, but from the older ones (2005) that I have tried, I much prefer the Merc auto boxes.

The sport versions have the additional paddle change on the steering wheel, not necessarily the quickest changing boxes but usually very smooth.Change the gearbox oil every 50k or so and they should be bullet proof. The latest versions also handle very well.The Merc would definately be my choice.

The problem I had with the box was when used in full auto mode if you asked for power it would be about five seconds before you got any at all It would shuffle down a few gears, then raise the revs before finally delivering the power to the wheels. Very frustrating. The car was an X3 3.0, which is why I'm being a bit hesitant to comment on all BMW auto boxes, because I'm guessing a 3 series may work differently.

Just to clarify my previous statement, change down on the Merc using the paddles/gearstick is almost immediate, much faster than the traditional kick down. Up changes tend to be a bit more leisurely but still pretty swift if you do it manually using the paddles in my experience. It also changes straight down to the lowest available gear without munching the box, so for example it will go from say 5th to 2nd with one tap of the paddles or gear selector.

Edited by Monkeylegend on Thursday 5th August 12:54

[Monkeylegend]

dave knott 5 said:

Hmm, a quick scan of the classifieds shows C320's starting at around £22k - which might just about be do-able. They still haven't shrugged off their slightly "old man" image though.

Also known as a "connoisseur"

[RobM77]

Monkeylegend said:

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

RobM77 said:

Monkeylegend said:

The 320 or 350 Cdi C Class sport would be a good alternative to the BMW's depending on your budget. Not quite the drivers cars as the BMW's but the choice of the "connoisseur" as opposed to the "boy racer"

I haven't tried the latest BMW autos to compare, but from the older ones (2005) that I have tried, I much prefer the Merc auto boxes.

The sport versions have the additional paddle change on the steering wheel, not necessarily the quickest changing boxes but usually very smooth.Change the gearbox oil every 50k or so and they should be bullet proof. The latest versions also handle very well.The Merc would definately be my choice.

The problem I had with the box was when used in full auto mode if you asked for power it would be about five seconds before you got any at all It would shuffle down a few gears, then raise the revs before finally delivering the power to the wheels. Very frustrating. The car was an X3 3.0, which is why I'm being a bit hesitant to comment on all BMW auto boxes, because I'm guessing a 3 series may work differently.

Just to clarify my previous statement, change down on the Merc using the paddles/gearstick is almost immediate, much faster than the traditional kick down. Up changes tend to be a bit more leisurely but still pretty swift if you do it manually using the paddles in my experience. It also changes straight down to the lowest available gear without munching the box, so for example it will go from say 5th to 2nd with one tap of the paddles or gear selector.

Edited by Monkeylegend on Thursday 5th August 12:54

In contrast to the BMW box, I found the Mercedes one absolutely fine. Personally, I'm not a fan of autos, but for what it is, it does the job perfectly. BMW may have improved their box of course, as I said, the only auto BMW I've driven was a 2005 X3. I expect it's the same box for the 3 series though, or at least the control systems for the box are the same.

[marcosgt]

I can't see how 'sporty' and 'auto' figure in the same sentence, so I could only consider a DSG box here, which means one of the VWs I guess.

M.