Suppose the battery problem got solved today ?
Discussion
Ok, highly hypothetical but say a battery was developed today that could store enough energy to propel a car for a decent range, a proper speeds, could be charged in half an hour using existing infrastructure and was cheap enough to make it viable and comparable to a normal car, and not licenced, i.e. just accept it as a given, dont worry about the reality of that side of it, like I said highly hypothetical.
How would the motor industry respond, what other factors would there be, social ones like people getting run over by silent EV's ?
How would the motor industry respond, what other factors would there be, social ones like people getting run over by silent EV's ?
Crusoe said:
Is there enough Lithium etc. available to make it viable for every car to run on, I would doubt it. Battery power is not a renewable resource and limited much more than oil.
Like I said, take the battery as a given, it was technology given to David Icke by aliens and is simply made of ordinary soil and crushed Ginger Biscuits, with some other abundant elements thrown in for good measure, it is effectively limitless and is easy to dispose of, produces plenty of power and can scale up, manufacture is simple, charging very effecient etc etc.J4CKO said:
Crusoe said:
Is there enough Lithium etc. available to make it viable for every car to run on, I would doubt it. Battery power is not a renewable resource and limited much more than oil.
Like I said, take the battery as a given, it was technology given to David Icke by aliens and is simply made of ordinary soil and crushed Ginger Biscuits, with some other abundant elements thrown in for good measure, it is effectively limitless and is easy to dispose of, produces plenty of power and can scale up, manufacture is simple, charging very effecient etc etc.One problem I see: it won't sound like a petrol car and for Pistonheads, the sound of a motor is a massive part of the appeal.
For the masses for whom a car is simply a white good and mode of transport, provided the purchase price was comparable, I think they'd jump at the opportunity. Especially since we've all been brainwashed to believe batteries will save the polar bears and fluffy kittens.
For the masses for whom a car is simply a white good and mode of transport, provided the purchase price was comparable, I think they'd jump at the opportunity. Especially since we've all been brainwashed to believe batteries will save the polar bears and fluffy kittens.
Road pricing is being driven by the long-term switch to low-emission powertrains.
Re. Electric vehicles being too quiet: work is already going on to implement noise generators into the cars.
The car industry doesn't care whether they have to change to electric power or not. If anything, it would be a boost to sales if there was a widespread take up of electric vehicles.
Re. Electric vehicles being too quiet: work is already going on to implement noise generators into the cars.
The car industry doesn't care whether they have to change to electric power or not. If anything, it would be a boost to sales if there was a widespread take up of electric vehicles.
Edited by BOR on Friday 6th August 12:37
Robert Llewellyn (of Red Dwarf / Scrapheap Challenge fame) has been doing a series of programmes looking at this sort of stuff. He's a petrolhead but interested in the tech and the implications of a fossil-fuel-reliant world. Internet-only but could get commissioned, as his Car Pool one has. Worth a watch.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow
The noise thing is a bit of a myth (which he demonstrates in one show), modern engines especially petrols are so quiet that almost all of the drive-by noise is from the tyres.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow
The noise thing is a bit of a myth (which he demonstrates in one show), modern engines especially petrols are so quiet that almost all of the drive-by noise is from the tyres.
electric vehicles have been around since the start iof the car itself- in Victorian times, you could buy electric, petrolium or steam powered cars. Diesel wasnt invented then.
back then, the range of the eldctric vehciles was...about 60 miles. But when the battery breakthrough happens, they will be longer.... which is what was aid in the 30s, the 60s, the 70s, and even today. Nissan leaf has a range of 100 miles, but with lights, stereo, hills etc you wont see more then 60 miles. In other words, no better then in Victorian times
Mfrs are very keen on electric because:
1) they are in the business to sell cars. and if the public want electric, the government want electric, they will make electric
2)It passes the whole emissions problem back to the government- electric cars suddenly become the governments problem in terms of Co2 emissions, etc
Yes there is enough lithium available.
And if yuo can crack the power issue, then there is no reason why you cant have speakers producing any noise you want- quiet (but not silent) in town, nascar in the countryside anyone? its easily done...
back then, the range of the eldctric vehciles was...about 60 miles. But when the battery breakthrough happens, they will be longer.... which is what was aid in the 30s, the 60s, the 70s, and even today. Nissan leaf has a range of 100 miles, but with lights, stereo, hills etc you wont see more then 60 miles. In other words, no better then in Victorian times
Mfrs are very keen on electric because:
1) they are in the business to sell cars. and if the public want electric, the government want electric, they will make electric
2)It passes the whole emissions problem back to the government- electric cars suddenly become the governments problem in terms of Co2 emissions, etc
Yes there is enough lithium available.
And if yuo can crack the power issue, then there is no reason why you cant have speakers producing any noise you want- quiet (but not silent) in town, nascar in the countryside anyone? its easily done...
HellDiver said:
This battery has existed since the 60's. Some people don't trust suitcase sized nuclear reactors, though, which is a shame.
'Fallout' game series anyone?I do enjoy running around shooting the derelict cars...then watching the mini-nuclear explosion.
Might not be as much fun in RL though
TonyHetherington said:
Silly question, but would there be enough electricity? Would the power stations be able to cope with, all of a sudden, people plugging in their cars every time they stopped?
They think so- they would expect vehciles to be charged overnight. Most people are asleep, so the power you use when awake (kettle, tv, radio, lights, computer etc etc) which is otherweise not used, would be used. The bigger problem is the power stations we currently have are not the most effecient and coming to the end of their useful life. More need to be built, and will need to be greener. Nuclear? CSP imported from North africa/spain? wave/wind?
And not everyone will have electric- mfrs are thinking along the lines of offering more choice then simply petrol, diesle or electric- hybrid, hydrogen fuel cell, or methane perhaps. This would solve the problem of people saying "yes but I cant park near a plug point...."- Honda, fore xample have a facility in the US which turns sunlight into Hydrogen fuel- and its small enough to fit in a garage or by the aide of the road
Whatever happens, our driving habits will need to change. That is the only certanty
TonyHetherington said:
Silly question, but would there be enough electricity? Would the power stations be able to cope with, all of a sudden, people plugging in their cars every time they stopped?
Given most charging would be at home, overnight (the Leaf even has it's own timers you can set to pick when it will start drawing power), when demand is low, I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem.TonyHetherington said:
Silly question, but would there be enough electricity? Would the power stations be able to cope with, all of a sudden, people plugging in their cars every time they stopped?
Nah, the power companies will be burning all the surplus petrol and diesel to make electricity.What battery problem?
Average annual milage 12000 per year
Number of working weeks 47
5 days a week
12000/(47x5)=52miles a day
So what battery problem?
The other huge hurdle is the recharge time as apparently nobody in the UK parks their car for more then an hour at a time where as i am wierd as mine is parked for most of the day
Even if an electric car came out today that did a 1000 miles a charge and took 5 minutes to recharge it would still be dismissed as utter s
t
Average annual milage 12000 per year
Number of working weeks 47
5 days a week
12000/(47x5)=52miles a day
So what battery problem?
The other huge hurdle is the recharge time as apparently nobody in the UK parks their car for more then an hour at a time where as i am wierd as mine is parked for most of the day
Even if an electric car came out today that did a 1000 miles a charge and took 5 minutes to recharge it would still be dismissed as utter s
tThinking about the commute;
The average vehicle (albeit slow) would have 100HP that's about 75kW.
If the vehicle used half of that for say an hour, each way, every day, that works out at a nominal figure of 75kWH.
If 10 million people commute to/from work each day that's 745 GWH.
A typical large power station like Drax generates about 4GW. Over the course of a day it can produce 96 GWH.
That means you're looking at about 8 new power stations the size of Drax, to power all of these electric vehicles.
At the moment it's unpopular to build new power stations. Instead we're building wind farms. One of the largest proposed is the London array. At a potential 1GW, when the wind is blowing hard, we would need 32 to cover the energy associated with the morning commute.
Most of the current wind-farms are more like 250MW, so for those we would need 128 to cover the requirement.
The real answer is to cut commuting.
If you want to be green, keep your car, work from home, and get a good internet connection.
The average vehicle (albeit slow) would have 100HP that's about 75kW.
If the vehicle used half of that for say an hour, each way, every day, that works out at a nominal figure of 75kWH.
If 10 million people commute to/from work each day that's 745 GWH.
A typical large power station like Drax generates about 4GW. Over the course of a day it can produce 96 GWH.
That means you're looking at about 8 new power stations the size of Drax, to power all of these electric vehicles.
At the moment it's unpopular to build new power stations. Instead we're building wind farms. One of the largest proposed is the London array. At a potential 1GW, when the wind is blowing hard, we would need 32 to cover the energy associated with the morning commute.
Most of the current wind-farms are more like 250MW, so for those we would need 128 to cover the requirement.
The real answer is to cut commuting.
If you want to be green, keep your car, work from home, and get a good internet connection.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 6th August 13:34
dilbert said:
Thinking about the commute;
The average vehicle (albeit slow) would have 100HP that's about 75kW.
If the vehicle used half of that for say an hour, each way, every day, that works out at a nominal figure of 75kWH.
If 10 million people commute to/from work each day that's 745 GWH.
A typical large power station like Drax generates about 4GW. Over the course of a day it can produce 96 GWH.
That means you're looking at about 8 new power stations the size of Drax, to power all of these electric vehicles.
Doesn't that assume everyone is going flat out for the whole journey though?The average vehicle (albeit slow) would have 100HP that's about 75kW.
If the vehicle used half of that for say an hour, each way, every day, that works out at a nominal figure of 75kWH.
If 10 million people commute to/from work each day that's 745 GWH.
A typical large power station like Drax generates about 4GW. Over the course of a day it can produce 96 GWH.
That means you're looking at about 8 new power stations the size of Drax, to power all of these electric vehicles.
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