Dithering Old Duffers
Discussion
I took a ride on the motorbike to the in-laws yesterday -Urban-rural-semi-rural.
I was amazed by the number of dithering, erratic, weaving, unnecessarily indicating and braking, inappropriate (slow and fast)speed, parking in the road drivers who were out-and-about.
The patterns of behaviour on show were fairly consistent in their inconsistency and, without fail, all of the drivers in question were over 70 and some appeared over 80.
I guess that mid-week, early afternoon most younger people are at work. The sheer number of these people is quite worrying and will presumably increase as the driving population ages.
I was amazed by the number of dithering, erratic, weaving, unnecessarily indicating and braking, inappropriate (slow and fast)speed, parking in the road drivers who were out-and-about.
The patterns of behaviour on show were fairly consistent in their inconsistency and, without fail, all of the drivers in question were over 70 and some appeared over 80.
I guess that mid-week, early afternoon most younger people are at work. The sheer number of these people is quite worrying and will presumably increase as the driving population ages.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 19th August 12:16
MC Bodge said:
I took a ride on the motorbike to the in-laws yesterday -Urban-rural-semi-rural.
I was amazed by the number of dithering, erratic, weaving, unnecessarily indicating and braking, inappropriate (slow and fast)speed, parking in the road drivers who were out-and-about.
The patterns of behaviour on show were fairly consistent in their inconsistency and, without fail, all of the drivers in question were over 70 and some appeared over 80.
I guess that mid-week, early afternoon most younger people are at work. The sheer number of these people is quite worrying and will presumably increase as the driving population ages.
Ok, we all best stop driving when we reach 50, its not just age really is it, there are plenty of crap younger drivers and excellent older ones, one day you will be old (owning a bike, it is still possible) will you give up driving at what 60,65, 70 to keep the roads clear for bikers ?I was amazed by the number of dithering, erratic, weaving, unnecessarily indicating and braking, inappropriate (slow and fast)speed, parking in the road drivers who were out-and-about.
The patterns of behaviour on show were fairly consistent in their inconsistency and, without fail, all of the drivers in question were over 70 and some appeared over 80.
I guess that mid-week, early afternoon most younger people are at work. The sheer number of these people is quite worrying and will presumably increase as the driving population ages.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 19th August 12:16
I just put it down to a fact of motoring, there will be slow people, I have never got over the fact that you have to go at the speed of the person in front, always seems a bit unfair but if you choose to drive, get used to it.
I see your prejudice against motorbikes.
The motorbike was incidental, I wasn't going fast or doing anything daft (my motorbike is transport, not a toy), but riding a bike you are more conscious of people doing strange things that could endanger you.
Speed was not the issue.
Not every old person is a poor driver, but the ones that I saw yesterday were old people.
The motorbike was incidental, I wasn't going fast or doing anything daft (my motorbike is transport, not a toy), but riding a bike you are more conscious of people doing strange things that could endanger you.
Speed was not the issue.
Not every old person is a poor driver, but the ones that I saw yesterday were old people.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 19th August 12:33
There will always be the exceptions that prove the rule.
The IAM commissioned a study to look at accidents and fatalities correlated against age and sex and it found, just as you would expect, that old duffers have very few accidents and that young men have lots.
This is simply a fact. You can argue that old dears drive a total of three miles a week and young salesmen might get through 30K a year but if you are an insurance company you're selling by the year and by the year the young man is going to prang more often.
Ditherers may be annoying and slow (they are!) and some even have accidents. But most oldsters don't - even if they dither a bit!
The IAM commissioned a study to look at accidents and fatalities correlated against age and sex and it found, just as you would expect, that old duffers have very few accidents and that young men have lots.
This is simply a fact. You can argue that old dears drive a total of three miles a week and young salesmen might get through 30K a year but if you are an insurance company you're selling by the year and by the year the young man is going to prang more often.
Ditherers may be annoying and slow (they are!) and some even have accidents. But most oldsters don't - even if they dither a bit!
Don said:
The IAM commissioned a study to look at accidents and fatalities correlated against age and sex and it found, just as you would expect, that old duffers have very few accidents and that young men have lots
I can't help thinking that the IAM might have set up the survey to demonstrate that though... "Young men, join the IAM and be a better driver like old people are"Young men often drive aggressively and may have serious accidents as a result.
The driving I'm describing is the nervous, erratic type caused by bewilderment and poor responses. They often cause other road users problems.
One of my Grandfathers was a good example of this. He went on driving far too long -If my parents get like that I'll be having words with them.
My boss stated that his father was prone to eppileptic fits, and yet he still continued driving.
Nearly killed my boss twice whilst giving him a lift and blacking out.
Stubborness.
I had an inncident the other day whereby a woman was performing a three point turn in the road so I slowed down and came to a stop about 10ft away giving her room to manuver, the old gentleman behind me went to overtake me as if I was parked!
The woman ahead and I exchanged glances of astonishment. The old man mounted the kirb to drive round her!
Nearly killed my boss twice whilst giving him a lift and blacking out.
Stubborness.
I had an inncident the other day whereby a woman was performing a three point turn in the road so I slowed down and came to a stop about 10ft away giving her room to manuver, the old gentleman behind me went to overtake me as if I was parked!
The woman ahead and I exchanged glances of astonishment. The old man mounted the kirb to drive round her!
can i just point out a lot of bad young men driving (i fall nicely into this category) is down to driving too fast and aggresively... therefore wrapping round tress in quite spectacular balls of flame and broken metal. But it rarely causes an issue to other drivers.
The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
jimbobsimmonds said:
can i just point out a lot of bad young men driving (i fall nicely into this category) is down to driving too fast and aggresively... therefore wrapping round tress in quite spectacular balls of flame and broken metal. But it rarely causes an issue to other drivers.
The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
No. One is dangerous, and contrary to your statement above, a hazard for other road users; the other merely annoying.The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
edited to say - Yes, I'm ancient.
Edited by Paul Drawmer on Thursday 19th August 13:30
Paul Drawmer said:
jimbobsimmonds said:
can i just point out a lot of bad young men driving (i fall nicely into this category) is down to driving too fast and aggresively... therefore wrapping round tress in quite spectacular balls of flame and broken metal. But it rarely causes an issue to other drivers.
The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
No. One is dangerous, and contrary to your statement above, a hazard for other road users; the other merely annoying.The elderly seem to cause more hazard to other road users in the sense they can be indecisive, have poorer car control (judgement of width seems a good one) and obviously slower reactions...
Both are dangerous, just in different less spectacular but in many ways more annoying ways...
on a serious note my brother was run over by an elderly gentleman on the pavement... the man was soo upset with himself and actually gave up driving afterwards but still little consolation.
One thing I have noticed though. ALL young people are perceived to be about as dangerous as ebola, whereas only SOME old people are dangerous.
I am young and have not killed anybody or had so much of a scrape in 55,000 miles of driving...
Edited by jimbobsimmonds on Thursday 19th August 13:33
Don said:
There will always be the exceptions that prove the rule.
The IAM commissioned a study to look at accidents and fatalities correlated against age and sex and it found, just as you would expect, that old duffers have very few accidents and that young men have lots.
This is simply a fact. You can argue that old dears drive a total of three miles a week and young salesmen might get through 30K a year but if you are an insurance company you're selling by the year and by the year the young man is going to prang more often.
Ditherers may be annoying and slow (they are!) and some even have accidents. But most oldsters don't - even if they dither a bit!
They may not HAVE accidents but I bet they CAUSE more than their fair share of them!The IAM commissioned a study to look at accidents and fatalities correlated against age and sex and it found, just as you would expect, that old duffers have very few accidents and that young men have lots.
This is simply a fact. You can argue that old dears drive a total of three miles a week and young salesmen might get through 30K a year but if you are an insurance company you're selling by the year and by the year the young man is going to prang more often.
Ditherers may be annoying and slow (they are!) and some even have accidents. But most oldsters don't - even if they dither a bit!
MC Bodge said:
I was amazed by the number of dithering, erratic, weaving, unnecessarily indicating and braking, inappropriate (slow and fast)speed, parking in the road drivers who were out-and-about.
That's consistent with what I see nearly every day, but then I live in rural Suffolk.For example, yesterday I followed an old duffer, 33mph in the NSL single lane. He slowed down to 22mph or so when we went into the 40 limit. As we approached an empty roundabout he braked to a stop. As he went across a busy roundabout he didn't lift off and just went over it at his 22mph or so (it was a mini-roundabout with no visibility to the right junction, but that didn't stop him), then as we hit the 30 limit he decided now was the time to accelerate to over 30mph and he then wandered off into the sunset as I stuck to 30.
champ54321 said:
They need to introduce some kind of driving assesment for older drivers, a large proportion just aren't safe.
The majority of bad driving I see comes from the grey haired generation.
ditto. this needs to happen.The majority of bad driving I see comes from the grey haired generation.
a normal 70yr old with a car is probably pretty equal to a 12yr old in skill level and judgement.
powwerr said:
champ54321 said:
They need to introduce some kind of driving assesment for older drivers, a large proportion just aren't safe.
The majority of bad driving I see comes from the grey haired generation.
ditto. this needs to happen.The majority of bad driving I see comes from the grey haired generation.
a normal 70yr old with a car is probably pretty equal to a 12yr old in skill level and judgement.
Yes old people become incapable of driving - it DOES happen - BUT not all at the same age. I do agree that oldsters should give up driving once unsafe. An assessment every few years after seventy isn't a bad idea. But given the costs the accident rate statistics don't support the idea!
Whilst they argue very strongly in favour of raising the driving age to 25!
To put a different spin on things:
Monday - I was coming back from the local Tesco, following an Octogenarian a Honda Jazz. "Oh great
", thinks I, but how wrong I was! She drove quickly & confidently, with very smooth & progressive acceleration, well timed braking & very good lines through the corners. It was, for the first time in a long time, a joy to follow someone along the road.
Contrasted with
Tuesday - I was driving home from the office & a chap in his early thirties was driving a Focus RS (what a fugly car that is!) in the most awful manner. not aggressively, particularly quickly or like a t
t, but he couldn't accelerate in a linear style, couldn't hold a speed & had awful awareness. It was really bloody hard work following him, as you just didn't know whether the next move was going to be speed up by 10mph, or slow down by 10mph (before anyone starts, I wasn't tailgating). IMO, there are no excuses for driving in such a pathetic manner. The focus RS is not particularly powerful & whilst it may be responsive to throttle inputs, the guy driving it had absolutely no clue how to drive his car.
Monday - I was coming back from the local Tesco, following an Octogenarian a Honda Jazz. "Oh great
", thinks I, but how wrong I was! She drove quickly & confidently, with very smooth & progressive acceleration, well timed braking & very good lines through the corners. It was, for the first time in a long time, a joy to follow someone along the road.Contrasted with
Tuesday - I was driving home from the office & a chap in his early thirties was driving a Focus RS (what a fugly car that is!) in the most awful manner. not aggressively, particularly quickly or like a t
t, but he couldn't accelerate in a linear style, couldn't hold a speed & had awful awareness. It was really bloody hard work following him, as you just didn't know whether the next move was going to be speed up by 10mph, or slow down by 10mph (before anyone starts, I wasn't tailgating). IMO, there are no excuses for driving in such a pathetic manner. The focus RS is not particularly powerful & whilst it may be responsive to throttle inputs, the guy driving it had absolutely no clue how to drive his car.schmalex said:
To put a different spin on things:
Monday - I was coming back from the local Tesco, following an Octogenarian a Honda Jazz. "Oh great ", thinks I, but how wrong I was! She drove quickly & confidently, with very smooth & progressive acceleration, well timed braking & very good lines through the corners. It was, for the first time in a long time, a joy to follow someone along the road.
Contrasted with
Tuesday - I was driving home from the office & a chap in his early thirties was driving a Focus RS (what a fugly car that is!) in the most awful manner. not aggressively, particularly quickly or like a tt, but he couldn't accelerate in a linear style, couldn't hold a speed & had awful awareness. It was really bloody hard work following him, as you just didn't know whether the next move was going to be speed up by 10mph, or slow down by 10mph (before anyone starts, I wasn't tailgating). IMO, there are no excuses for driving in such a pathetic manner. The focus RS is not particularly powerful & whilst it may be responsive to throttle inputs, the guy driving it had absolutely no clue how to drive his car.
agreed on that second point... i love playing the 68mph cruise control game... basically you sit in the left hand lane on the m'way and set cruise control to 68mph and count how many times the car in front accelerates and falls back... its amazing how some people cannot control their speed...Monday - I was coming back from the local Tesco, following an Octogenarian a Honda Jazz. "Oh great
", thinks I, but how wrong I was! She drove quickly & confidently, with very smooth & progressive acceleration, well timed braking & very good lines through the corners. It was, for the first time in a long time, a joy to follow someone along the road.Contrasted with
Tuesday - I was driving home from the office & a chap in his early thirties was driving a Focus RS (what a fugly car that is!) in the most awful manner. not aggressively, particularly quickly or like a t
t, but he couldn't accelerate in a linear style, couldn't hold a speed & had awful awareness. It was really bloody hard work following him, as you just didn't know whether the next move was going to be speed up by 10mph, or slow down by 10mph (before anyone starts, I wasn't tailgating). IMO, there are no excuses for driving in such a pathetic manner. The focus RS is not particularly powerful & whilst it may be responsive to throttle inputs, the guy driving it had absolutely no clue how to drive his car.I was chatting to a guy in the gym the other day and was complaining about some old duffer I'd been stuck behind as he accelerated, braked and generally weaved around in no relevance to the road ahead.
Anyway the guy turns to me and says "Don't be hard on the old fella, my grandad still drives and he can't even see far past the end of his bonnet, I bet he drives at 20mph everywhere"
So I just stared at the guy waiting for him to laugh or indicate in any way that he was joking, nothing, not a hint of a smile. After about 30 seconds I actually had to ask him if he was having a laugh. Guess what, no joke. He goes "well my grandad has been driving for years, he's a good driver".
I just walked away!
Anyway the guy turns to me and says "Don't be hard on the old fella, my grandad still drives and he can't even see far past the end of his bonnet, I bet he drives at 20mph everywhere"
So I just stared at the guy waiting for him to laugh or indicate in any way that he was joking, nothing, not a hint of a smile. After about 30 seconds I actually had to ask him if he was having a laugh. Guess what, no joke. He goes "well my grandad has been driving for years, he's a good driver".
I just walked away!
jimbobsimmonds said:
agreed on that second point... i love playing the 68mph cruise control game... basically you sit in the left hand lane on the m'way and set cruise control to 68mph and count how many times the car in front accelerates and falls back... its amazing how some people cannot control their speed...
So you need cruise control to sit at a constant 68?On the way to work today, travelling on a 30mph bit of dual carriage-way, houses either side, when suddenly up ahead the traffic is stationary in the outside lane. I had plenty of time to slow down so it wasn't particularly a problem for me, but as I got closer, it was some old dear sat there with her left indicator on, waiting to pull into one of the drive-ways. Eventually people on the inside stopped to let her go, and off she dawdled. Unbelieveable!
MC Bodge said:
I see your prejudice against motorbikes.
No, I like bikes, I was just making that comment before someone said that you wouldnt have to worry about being old riding a bike.Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 19th August 12:33
I got reversed over with my cousin by a woman so fat she couldnt turn her head due to the mass of flesh.
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