Am I mad for wanting a classic Beetle?
Discussion
They are hideous to drive, slower than evolution, rustier than a rusty thing in a rainstorm and not exactly quiet either. Chances are I look like a t
t driving it!
But I drove one today that belongs to my Boss and for some reason I can't quite explain, I love it! I think maybe it is because it is so simple and you need to have your wits about you, especially with no servo assistance on the brakes.
My boss is thinking about getting rid of it, its not in perfect condition, needs tidying up, but it is roadworthy and not a completely awful to look at. He has shown interest in my Puma which I'm selling, I'm seriously considering doing a deal with him. But I have no idea of what either car is worth, anybody care to help?
My car is a W-Reg Ford Puma 1.7 with 69000 miles, Tax and Test until December, very little history, Cat-C repaired, A/C, heated front screen, fair condition, little rust showing on the arches. Cambelt recently changed and a few minor suspension components replaced. Not a perfect example, but its not a shed either.
The Beetle is an old J-reg circa 1970 I think, showing 38000 on the clock, but god knows how many times it has been round it! Runs ok-ish, its been estimated to need £1500 worth of bodywork needed doing on it. New panels etc, structurally I'm led to believe it is sound.
Anybody recommend a proposal I can put to him, I'd like to do a straight swap, but as I said I have no idea of the value of either them.
The car would be a project for me, I'm not after it for frequent use, but I'd like to eventually restore it and maybe upgrade the brakes, steering, suspension etc to make it nicer to drive, I'm not a "dubber" and don't wish to be (no offence meant). I just need a hobby!
Also before anyone suggests keeping the Puma, I'd love too but I can't afford to insure two cars unless one is on a classic policy!
t driving it!But I drove one today that belongs to my Boss and for some reason I can't quite explain, I love it! I think maybe it is because it is so simple and you need to have your wits about you, especially with no servo assistance on the brakes.
My boss is thinking about getting rid of it, its not in perfect condition, needs tidying up, but it is roadworthy and not a completely awful to look at. He has shown interest in my Puma which I'm selling, I'm seriously considering doing a deal with him. But I have no idea of what either car is worth, anybody care to help?
My car is a W-Reg Ford Puma 1.7 with 69000 miles, Tax and Test until December, very little history, Cat-C repaired, A/C, heated front screen, fair condition, little rust showing on the arches. Cambelt recently changed and a few minor suspension components replaced. Not a perfect example, but its not a shed either.
The Beetle is an old J-reg circa 1970 I think, showing 38000 on the clock, but god knows how many times it has been round it! Runs ok-ish, its been estimated to need £1500 worth of bodywork needed doing on it. New panels etc, structurally I'm led to believe it is sound.
Anybody recommend a proposal I can put to him, I'd like to do a straight swap, but as I said I have no idea of the value of either them.
The car would be a project for me, I'm not after it for frequent use, but I'd like to eventually restore it and maybe upgrade the brakes, steering, suspension etc to make it nicer to drive, I'm not a "dubber" and don't wish to be (no offence meant). I just need a hobby!
Also before anyone suggests keeping the Puma, I'd love too but I can't afford to insure two cars unless one is on a classic policy!
Nobody is mad for wanting a car which appeals to them. I'd love a Jeep Wrangler, even though I know they're awful in so many ways. If you want it, scratch that itch.
You only live once, and if it doesn't work out, so be it. At least you'll have done it.
Sorry I can't help on values of either car.
You only live once, and if it doesn't work out, so be it. At least you'll have done it.
Sorry I can't help on values of either car.
Be careful with the "led to believe it's sound" bit.
Our one had obvious things wrong with it when we took it on as a project, but it's the unseen stuff that will hit you hard.
We had to do a lot more than we had originally planned. Worth it in the end, but don't go into the restoration game lightly. It adds up very quickly, both in time and money.
Not trying to put you off, but think about how much effort you really want to put in.
Our one had obvious things wrong with it when we took it on as a project, but it's the unseen stuff that will hit you hard.
We had to do a lot more than we had originally planned. Worth it in the end, but don't go into the restoration game lightly. It adds up very quickly, both in time and money.
Not trying to put you off, but think about how much effort you really want to put in.
I'd say with an old car like a Beetle you are better off getting one which has already been well restored or repaired as they have a tendency to fall apart even more when you unbolt and remove panels. They are great fun cars which you can slide on roundabouts with ease those overcook it at your peril!! They are loads and loads of fun and I will have another only this time probably with about 200bhp for some real fun.
Also bare in mind that if you use it year round then the lights are crap, you will get ice on the inside of the windows and rear screens and it is also colder on the inside of the car when driving than on the outside. Get used to having some of those heated hand warmers in every pocket.
So to sum up -GO FOR IT!!!
Also bare in mind that if you use it year round then the lights are crap, you will get ice on the inside of the windows and rear screens and it is also colder on the inside of the car when driving than on the outside. Get used to having some of those heated hand warmers in every pocket.
So to sum up -GO FOR IT!!!
The trouble is, how do you know if one has been well restored? The only way you'll know for certain is if you do it yourself.
Our ground up, nut and bolt resto was spread over 8 years and cost in excess of 8k, which is ludicrous when you think about it, but spread over time you don't notice.
All I'm saying is be careful on your estimation of the work required. You see lots of restoration projects for sale, in all marques, for good reason.
Our ground up, nut and bolt resto was spread over 8 years and cost in excess of 8k, which is ludicrous when you think about it, but spread over time you don't notice.
All I'm saying is be careful on your estimation of the work required. You see lots of restoration projects for sale, in all marques, for good reason.
haha, well my car is a kit based on a 2CV. It has no crash protection , god help us if it ever gets rolled, no weather protection, 4 gears, no windscreen, no roof, 3 wheels, its made of plastic, is air cooled, has 2 cylinders and is quite noisy and quite slow and makes a rock look like a piece of engineering brilliance. So i don't know why you are worrying about a classic beetle, it is the height of luxury as far as the Lomax is concerned.
and you will feel like a 10 year old driving it and therefore ace.
DO IT!
and you will feel like a 10 year old driving it and therefore ace.
DO IT!
edo said:
If everyone bought cars on the crash safety of them we would all be very very boring people....
Cold in the winter, ie scrape the ice of the inside
Boiling in the summer, yes they have quarterlights but it don't stop your balls from sticking to one of the most uncomfortable vinyl seat ever known to man
Make a dreadful noise
Brakes are arse
Power non exsistent unless you put something decent in the back, ie more than a 1641 bolt on kit with a set of webbers or Dell'ortos
Don't go around corners that well, unless you get a 1302 with mcpherson strut, and stick it on the floor then they stick to the road like st on a blanket.
I wouldn't.
Boiling in the summer, yes they have quarterlights but it don't stop your balls from sticking to one of the most uncomfortable vinyl seat ever known to man
Make a dreadful noise
Brakes are arse
Power non exsistent unless you put something decent in the back, ie more than a 1641 bolt on kit with a set of webbers or Dell'ortos
Don't go around corners that well, unless you get a 1302 with mcpherson strut, and stick it on the floor then they stick to the road like s
t on a blanket.I wouldn't.
pits said:
Cold in the winter, ie scrape the ice of the inside
Boiling in the summer, yes they have quarterlights but it don't stop your balls from sticking to one of the most uncomfortable vinyl seat ever known to man
Make a dreadful noise
Brakes are arse
Power non exsistent unless you put something decent in the back, ie more than a 1641 bolt on kit with a set of webbers or Dell'ortos
Don't go around corners that well, unless you get a 1302 with mcpherson strut, and stick it on the floor then they stick to the road like st on a blanket.
I wouldn't.
They are only cold if the heaters knackered (heat exchangers/piping/rust). Working they are superhot, and you can't turn them off properly, so cook. That makes the seats even more uncomfortable.Boiling in the summer, yes they have quarterlights but it don't stop your balls from sticking to one of the most uncomfortable vinyl seat ever known to man
Make a dreadful noise
Brakes are arse
Power non exsistent unless you put something decent in the back, ie more than a 1641 bolt on kit with a set of webbers or Dell'ortos
Don't go around corners that well, unless you get a 1302 with mcpherson strut, and stick it on the floor then they stick to the road like s
t on a blanket.I wouldn't.
They rust. They need a 1641 and twin carbs. The suspension on the standard ones is very, very adjustable, so no money can give decent handling. 1302s are best avoided, they do handle oddly - they have a Z bar, which promotes roll! - and rust even quicker.
Mostly easy to work on, you can turn it into component parts in about 4 hours with 3 spanners and a hammer.
Just check very, very carefully for rust.
As a few people have said, rust is an issue - get the carpets up and have a proper look. Make sure no idiots welded the body to the chassis. If there are any repairs chances are they've been done badly - welding new metal directly over rusty metal is common, particularly with the heater channels, which helpfully rust from the inside out.
However, if you're up for a resto and are half decent at spannering, they're an easy car to work on, not much in the way of electrickery and the engine comes out easily - just 4 bolts if I remember rightly. Pretty much every part is readily available, either brand new from people like VW Heritage and GSF or there's loads of second hand bits on ebay. I restored ours over 2 years, and it cost about 6k to do it all in, but it was a proper body off resto to what I'd like to think was a high quality - I even replaced all nuts and bolts with stainless steel so, if I had to, it would come apart again easily. Check my profile for pics.
Compared to a modern car, they're awful to drive, really noisy and dead slow. However, I've never got out of ours without a smile on my face... Do it, they're a really accessible classic and you really feel like you're driving a bit of history. Even a 1970 car is still mostly based on a design from the late 30's!
Keeping a beetle once you've restored it is also very, very cheap. Ours is less than a tenner a month to insure and tax free...
However, if you're up for a resto and are half decent at spannering, they're an easy car to work on, not much in the way of electrickery and the engine comes out easily - just 4 bolts if I remember rightly. Pretty much every part is readily available, either brand new from people like VW Heritage and GSF or there's loads of second hand bits on ebay. I restored ours over 2 years, and it cost about 6k to do it all in, but it was a proper body off resto to what I'd like to think was a high quality - I even replaced all nuts and bolts with stainless steel so, if I had to, it would come apart again easily. Check my profile for pics.
Compared to a modern car, they're awful to drive, really noisy and dead slow. However, I've never got out of ours without a smile on my face... Do it, they're a really accessible classic and you really feel like you're driving a bit of history. Even a 1970 car is still mostly based on a design from the late 30's!
Keeping a beetle once you've restored it is also very, very cheap. Ours is less than a tenner a month to insure and tax free...
eldar said:
They are only cold if the heaters knackered (heat exchangers/piping/rust). Working they are superhot, and you can't turn them off properly, so cook. That makes the seats even more uncomfortable.
Good quality heat exchangers can make the car toasty warm and even demist the screen, especially if you open a window a crack - they're airtight so you need to let a little air out to get more in. Heaters can be turned off, the system is a bit contrived but not complicated.eldar said:
They rust.
I'll say. Lift up the rear seat, you'll see a battery and possibly some floorpan, possibly some road. Look at the sills (called heater channels on a Beetle) at the back, that's where they go first. Then at the A post and where the front suspension joins to the backbone frame. Those are the pricey bits to restore.eldar said:
They need a 1641 and twin carbs.
Possibly... I had one like this and while it was quick enough, you lose some of the simplicity of the car.eldar said:
The suspension on the standard ones is very, very adjustable, so no money can give decent handling. 1302s are best avoided, they do handle oddly - they have a Z bar, which promotes roll! - and rust even quicker.
Think you're getting mixed up there, the 1302s and 1303s handle fine, better than the torsion bar front end and swing axle rears of the 1200, 1300 and 1500 Beetles. The Z Bar is a fiendish bit of kit that promotes roll (it's like an anti-antiroll bar) but that's fitted to some swing axle cars only. You want to promote roll on a swing axle car because it keeps the outside wheel from tucking under, in fact some Formula Vee racers have zero springs and just a Z Bar. The Z Bar was available on 1500 Beetles as standard and an option on 1300s, it came with soft rear torsion bars which helped to keep the rear wheels planted as vertically as possible.eldar said:
Just check very, very carefully for rust.
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