Do people really buy cars through solicitors?
Discussion
Bit like the title really....am selling my car (and I'm new to this), its just over £20k, and the prospective new owner wants to instruct his solicitors to make the purchase. Does this really happen?
It seems likely that there are pitfalls for the seller, if the solicitors come back with a wadge of paper as some kind of contract - makes it very easy for them to play-up about the car (not that there is anything wrong with the car). It is my fathers opinion that the only reason to use a solicitors is to hide who you are (but then he is an extreme cynic - nearly 30 yrs in the police does that!).
I suppose this should be the safest way to go about selling the car but I don't trust people easily, the buyer is in Manchester and I'm in Swindon, and he wants to sort the money out before arranging to come look at the car with his son - who he is buying it for. He isn't native English but the internet has records of him in Manchester going back some years (I've done some sleuthing!). I could just back out of the sale, but I don't want to disappoint the buyer - as if he is genuine (cynic mode!) then I wouldn't like to do that to someone.
Thanks in advance
coanda
It seems likely that there are pitfalls for the seller, if the solicitors come back with a wadge of paper as some kind of contract - makes it very easy for them to play-up about the car (not that there is anything wrong with the car). It is my fathers opinion that the only reason to use a solicitors is to hide who you are (but then he is an extreme cynic - nearly 30 yrs in the police does that!).
I suppose this should be the safest way to go about selling the car but I don't trust people easily, the buyer is in Manchester and I'm in Swindon, and he wants to sort the money out before arranging to come look at the car with his son - who he is buying it for. He isn't native English but the internet has records of him in Manchester going back some years (I've done some sleuthing!). I could just back out of the sale, but I don't want to disappoint the buyer - as if he is genuine (cynic mode!) then I wouldn't like to do that to someone.
Thanks in advance
coanda
coanda said:
Bit like the title really....am selling my car (and I'm new to this), its just over £20k, and the prospective new owner wants to instruct his solicitors to make the purchase. Does this really happen?
It seems likely that there are pitfalls for the seller, if the solicitors come back with a wadge of paper as some kind of contract - makes it very easy for them to play-up about the car (not that there is anything wrong with the car). It is my fathers opinion that the only reason to use a solicitors is to hide who you are (but then he is an extreme cynic - nearly 30 yrs in the police does that!).
I suppose this should be the safest way to go about selling the car but I don't trust people easily, the buyer is in Manchester and I'm in Swindon, and he wants to sort the money out before arranging to come look at the car with his son - who he is buying it for. He isn't native English but the internet has records of him in Manchester going back some years (I've done some sleuthing!). I could just back out of the sale, but I don't want to disappoint the buyer - as if he is genuine (cynic mode!) then I wouldn't like to do that to someone.
Thanks in advance
coanda
I've sold dozens of cars in my time. never heard of this tbh. Sounds like a typical, 'hand over your moneyz' and I will pay you back with a cheque for the expenditure to cover my ugandan mining company thing. Though I am also a cynic!It seems likely that there are pitfalls for the seller, if the solicitors come back with a wadge of paper as some kind of contract - makes it very easy for them to play-up about the car (not that there is anything wrong with the car). It is my fathers opinion that the only reason to use a solicitors is to hide who you are (but then he is an extreme cynic - nearly 30 yrs in the police does that!).
I suppose this should be the safest way to go about selling the car but I don't trust people easily, the buyer is in Manchester and I'm in Swindon, and he wants to sort the money out before arranging to come look at the car with his son - who he is buying it for. He isn't native English but the internet has records of him in Manchester going back some years (I've done some sleuthing!). I could just back out of the sale, but I don't want to disappoint the buyer - as if he is genuine (cynic mode!) then I wouldn't like to do that to someone.
Thanks in advance
coanda
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Don't be dictated to by potential buyers. This sounds a bit dodgy to me and I would be politely declining to do any deals via third parties.
If it sounds dodgy, it probably is!
+1If it sounds dodgy, it probably is!
Edited by Dr Doofenshmirtz on Monday 13th September 09:27
I would pull out of the deal.
Whats the car out of interest?
Some people do this if they suspect that there is outstanding finance on the car. This is so that they can have some fallback if the previous owner does not settle up. I've seen/heard it done a few times without issues.
But again, it's your car. If you don't like it, tell them it's a no go.
But again, it's your car. If you don't like it, tell them it's a no go.
coanda said:
Bit like the title really....am selling my car (and I'm new to this), its just over £20k, and the prospective new owner wants to instruct his solicitors to make the purchase. Does this really happen?
I've had a cautious buyer insist on using solicitors client account for holding the payment on a £40k car deal and he didn’t want to lug that much around in cash etc.
Buyer merely wanted to do the payment in Escrow, as well as there being a paper trail and was happy to put the money into my long term solicitors account not someone I didn’t know.
Deal went ahead without a hitch, and solicitor charged a nominal £50 'admin fee' without getting unnecessarily involved in any contract of sale since it was a simple 'sold as seen' private deal with no conditions.
Thankyou guys, your posts have been most helpful. The legal firm is berry&berry. They have a number of offices in Manchester and the eccles office is on the same street as the address I have found. I have looked on the Law Society website and they are listed there, but would appreciate the thoughts of those more in the know about these things.
The caller said both he and his son were doctors so I checked the GMC website and his son is listed there and the dates and location of his uni degree match those of a person by his sons name on facebook. He isnt on the GMC site but he did say he had had a stroke so I presume he wouldnt be a practicing GP anymore.
My car is the black 2.7 cayman up for 21500 pounds in the classifieds.
Thanks again,
Coanda
The caller said both he and his son were doctors so I checked the GMC website and his son is listed there and the dates and location of his uni degree match those of a person by his sons name on facebook. He isnt on the GMC site but he did say he had had a stroke so I presume he wouldnt be a practicing GP anymore.
My car is the black 2.7 cayman up for 21500 pounds in the classifieds.
Thanks again,
Coanda
hmmm, not totally sure tbh
looking at the addresses, one is obvious:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&am...
the other seems to just be houses. doesn't look like the biggest of firms ever, and doesn't look too great. I'll ask my mate who worked as a solicitor in manchester a bit ago if he's heard of them.
I wouldn't want to sign any paperwork to sell a car either tbh, but its a bit of money, so i guess just see it through, and if it works, it works, just make sure your funds are totally cleared, and check with your bank whichever payment method they use cannot be clawed back.
looking at the addresses, one is obvious:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&am...
the other seems to just be houses. doesn't look like the biggest of firms ever, and doesn't look too great. I'll ask my mate who worked as a solicitor in manchester a bit ago if he's heard of them.
I wouldn't want to sign any paperwork to sell a car either tbh, but its a bit of money, so i guess just see it through, and if it works, it works, just make sure your funds are totally cleared, and check with your bank whichever payment method they use cannot be clawed back.
Speaking as a solicitor, I agree that sounds weird and a bit fishy. So far as I know, cars (other than perhaps ones going for lottery money) are always, by convention, sold privately "as seen" under the principle of caveat emptor!
However, if they insist on a contract, first of all insist on a non-refundable deposit and then perhaps draw up your own, which should specifically state at least: (i) exactly what you are and aren't selling, (ii) that the purchase price, once paid, is not refundable and (iii) the terms of delivery.
If you do decide to proceed, then whoever drafts the contract, ensure that the contract contains absolutely no representations or covenants about the car (or its condition) other than that you have "free and clear title" to it (which is essential to the contract and therefore acceptable). The contract should also contain a clause allowing you to terminate it without penalty if the Buyer does not pay within e.g. two days.
Obviously there are lots of other clauses I could rattle on about, but as a seller, I personally would be particularly fussed to also ensure that any written contract contained an "Exclusion and Waiver" clause along the lines of:
7. EXCLUSION AND WAIVER
7.1 Exclusion of Liability
Save as expressly stated in this Agreement, the Seller has not and will not be deemed to have made or given any representation or warranty (express or implied) with respect to the Vehicle, including but not limited to:
(a) the fitness for any use or purpose, value, condition or operation or of the Vehicle or any part thereof; or
(b) any obligation, liability, right, claim or remedy in tort, whether or not arising from the Seller's negligence, actual or imputed.
7.2 Waiver
The Buyer hereby waives, as between itself and the Seller, all its rights in respect of any representation or warranty (express or implied), on the part of the Seller and all claims against the Seller howsoever and whenever arising at any time in respect of the condition or circumstances of the Vehicle, any non-conformance, damage or defect in the Vehicle or the Vehicle Documents.
7.3 Confirmation
The Buyer confirms that it is fully aware of the provisions of this Clause 7 (Exclusion and Waiver), and acknowledges that the Purchase Price of the Vehicle and the other mutual agreements of the parties set out in this Agreement have been agreed notwithstanding its provisions.
Hope that's helpful. Obviously, I accept no liability for the above...
However, if they insist on a contract, first of all insist on a non-refundable deposit and then perhaps draw up your own, which should specifically state at least: (i) exactly what you are and aren't selling, (ii) that the purchase price, once paid, is not refundable and (iii) the terms of delivery.
If you do decide to proceed, then whoever drafts the contract, ensure that the contract contains absolutely no representations or covenants about the car (or its condition) other than that you have "free and clear title" to it (which is essential to the contract and therefore acceptable). The contract should also contain a clause allowing you to terminate it without penalty if the Buyer does not pay within e.g. two days.
Obviously there are lots of other clauses I could rattle on about, but as a seller, I personally would be particularly fussed to also ensure that any written contract contained an "Exclusion and Waiver" clause along the lines of:
7. EXCLUSION AND WAIVER
7.1 Exclusion of Liability
Save as expressly stated in this Agreement, the Seller has not and will not be deemed to have made or given any representation or warranty (express or implied) with respect to the Vehicle, including but not limited to:
(a) the fitness for any use or purpose, value, condition or operation or of the Vehicle or any part thereof; or
(b) any obligation, liability, right, claim or remedy in tort, whether or not arising from the Seller's negligence, actual or imputed.
7.2 Waiver
The Buyer hereby waives, as between itself and the Seller, all its rights in respect of any representation or warranty (express or implied), on the part of the Seller and all claims against the Seller howsoever and whenever arising at any time in respect of the condition or circumstances of the Vehicle, any non-conformance, damage or defect in the Vehicle or the Vehicle Documents.
7.3 Confirmation
The Buyer confirms that it is fully aware of the provisions of this Clause 7 (Exclusion and Waiver), and acknowledges that the Purchase Price of the Vehicle and the other mutual agreements of the parties set out in this Agreement have been agreed notwithstanding its provisions.
Hope that's helpful. Obviously, I accept no liability for the above...
Edited by Wolands Advocate on Monday 13th September 12:26
I've come across a few cases of wealthy buyers buying via a solicitor, but that's because they ended up with shell companies owning the vehicles in a complicated structure.
It doesn't sound too fishy to me, some people are just risk averse. Post up a copy of any contract on here and I'm sure some of us could check it over.
It doesn't sound too fishy to me, some people are just risk averse. Post up a copy of any contract on here and I'm sure some of us could check it over.
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