What track day car?

[Diablos-666]

After reading the following thread

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... E36 - Track Day Car

It has got me and a mate thinking about doing the same sort of thing.

We have an idea of stripping the car back, putting in a roll cage, upgrade the brakes & suspension.

We don't really want to do much to the engine as neither of us are that mechanically minded.

But...

What car should we choose to mutilate?

A Yank Tank - A strong engine but I worry that it will still be a heavy old lump even when stripped out and be a surrender monkey in the corners.

A Jap Turbo car - This could be money pit with regards to the stresses on the engine.

Alfa Romeo 155 / Merc 190E - Maybe a good starting point but not enough grunt?

Any others the PH could think of & why?

Budget for the initial purchase ~ £2k

[rhinochopig]

Why not just buy a seven type kit? Very low wear rate on all the components and will run rings around the stuff you are suggesting.

[RobM77]

rhinochopig said:

Why not just buy a seven type kit? Very low wear rate on all the components and will run rings around the stuff you are suggesting.

Having run and driven a few different cars on track, nothing's cheaper to run than a 7, and pretty much nothing's faster either - or more fun! Combining those three - cheap to run, fast and fun, is unique to Caterhams as far as I know, which is why they're so popular. Plus they don't depreciate. £2k spent on a 328i with £7k of track mods will result in a £2k BMW after three years, whereas £9k spent on an ex racing Caterham (yes, they do sell for that fully race prepped...) will still be £9k in three years time - and ten year's time!

[Bill]

Or, and I can't believe no one's thought of this, an MX5?

[RobM77]

Bill said:

Or, and I can't believe no one's thought of this, an MX5?

It was the first car I thought of actually, but a Caterham would just be so much better!

[Diablos-666]

Yes that is a good suggestion, however we don't have those sorts of funds available at the moment.

The track day car would be built over many months and when funds allow.

Still - The caterham option is something to think about.

[Bill]

RobM77 said:

Bill said:

Or, and I can't believe no one's thought of this, an MX5?

It was the first car I thought of actually, but a Caterham would just be so much better!

Not for £2k

[Gad-Westy]

As other's have alluded to, it's really going to be dictated by your overall project budget far more than the £2k initial purchase price.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Wednesday 15th September 11:23

[RudeDog]

Having driven a Caterham 7 a few times on a track, nothing else would interest me as a track day car. They are out of this world. A Westfield would give similar levels of enjoyment for about half the price of a Caterham however you would still be looking at around £5K as a minimum.

If you really only have £2K to spend with no extra for mods, I'm sorry to say but an MX-5 is probably your best bet. Its much more fun to drive than other vehicles of a similar type (MGF, Z3).

You could also consider one of the Jap favourites like a Toyota MR2 or Nissan 200sx.

[RobM77]

Bill said:

RobM77 said:

Bill said:

Or, and I can't believe no one's thought of this, an MX5?

It was the first car I thought of actually, but a Caterham would just be so much better!

Not for £2k

Sorry, I meant to cover that in my post but I was probably too subtle. If you buy a £2k car like an MX5 or an E36 you'll end up spending about £7k in total by the time you've added a cage, better seats, steering wheel, brakes, suspension and then fixed the things that were wrong with the car in the first place (worn bushes, gearbox etc) that will come out in track use very quickly. £2k+£7k=£9k and that'll get you an ex racing Caterham, such as a Roadsport A, which will piss all over the vast majority of road cars in lap time, fun factor and running costs. Plus, the Caterham will always be worth £9k, whereas the modded road car will probably only be worth what you bought it for, with the £7k of mods just money down the drain.

edited to add: I'm not knocking the attraction of modding a road car (I've been harbouring plans to tastefully lighten and modify a 964 or 996 for a few years now!), from an interest and engineering point of view it's a great thing to do; but if it's a snesible purchase on a budget for track days then the most sensible option is a Caterham really. My thoughts of modding a 964 are based around the fact that I've owned two Caterhams already, fancy a change and have the budget to not worry too much about the cost.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 15th September 11:28

[Alfa numeric]

My interpretation of the OP's post was that he wanted to spend £2k initially, then upgrade over time- which unfortunately negates the Caterham idea.

I'd go with an MX5 too- the standard car's fun and upgrading it is easy thanks to a huge amount of companies offering parts. I'm thinking about doing it myself in the new year so I'd be interested to hear how you got on if you decide on this route.

[oOTomOo]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, I meant to cover that in my post but I was probably too subtle. If you buy a £2k car like an MX5 or an E36 you'll end up spending about £7k in total by the time you've added a cage, better seats, steering wheel, brakes, suspension and then fixed the things that were wrong with the car in the first place (worn bushes, gearbox etc) that will come out in track use very quickly. £2k+£7k=£9k and that'll get you an ex racing Caterham, such as a Roadsport A, which will piss all over the vast majority of road cars in lap time, fun factor and running costs. Plus, the Caterham will always be worth £9k, whereas the modded road car will probably only be worth what you bought it for, with the £7k of mods just money down the drain.

Listen to this man..

[Emubiker]

I'd also suggest that it depends what track (s) you are likely to be using. For example, I use a bog standard 1.6 corsa at knockhill and lap in the 1:10s, I know of a few others who have 320s and mx-5s and through the undulating first few corners they just can't keep with the corsa, nor can they at the hairpin (especially when wet). There is also a 535 (albeit an auto) that is marginally quicker time wise, but still holds me up in the first two sets of corners.

I'm not saying I'm a great driver or that they are crap, but the type of track would play its part in my choice of car.

[Bill]

Rob, are you including FI in your budget? FWIW I know where you're coming from but£2k for a good MX5 and roll bar would be a great start point.


ETA And I suspect you'd be harder on a car than most...

Edited by Bill on Wednesday 15th September 11:38

[Matt UK]

I go with MX5 as well.

They can be upgraded over time as funds allow, but much of the appeal is that they are plenty of fun as standard also.

[Mars]

Although I love the idea of buying an old Beemer for track use, in practice it wasn't designed for that sort of thing and would break something very quickly. For example, I'm not sure whether the oil system would withstand being throw into corners hard, lap after lap. I have seen such cars at trackdays operating quite successfully but their owners have spent a fair bit making them work in that environment.

Also, the weight of the car puts additional wear on tyres and brakes. My last Se7en was on it's original brake pads 6 years into ownership, 25K miles and countless trackdays.

[CampDavid]

I would personally start with someone elses project. So many people buy a good car, strip it for track use, throw hours and lot of cash at it, do two trackdays and then sell

[RobM77]

Bill said:

Rob, are you including FI in your budget? FWIW I know where you're coming from but£2k for a good MX5 and roll bar would be a great start point.


ETA And I suspect you'd be harder on a car than most...

Edited by Bill on Wednesday 15th September 11:38

Sorry, what's FI?

I'm actually well known for being very easy on cars; the chap who runs the car I drive at the moment is always commenting on it when he strips our cars down after each race. Also, my team-mate bought an old set of tyres off me in an emergency after he flat spotted some on a test day and apparently they were in better nick than his one race old set! Nevertheless, the running costs are much lower on a lightweight like a Caterham - even going easy on a ten year old BMW you're going to start uncovering all sorts of things and you can spend thousands and thousands quite easily.

[Gad-Westy]

Alfa numeric said:

My interpretation of the OP's post was that he wanted to spend £2k initially, then upgrade over time- which unfortunately negates the Caterham idea.

I'd go with an MX5 too- the standard car's fun and upgrading it is easy thanks to a huge amount of companies offering parts. I'm thinking about doing it myself in the new year so I'd be interested to hear how you got on if you decide on this route.

This being the case, I'd agree with the MX5. Less than £1000 should get a tatty one. Cover up the dents with stickers if you wish. Rip everything out that's not needed and stick it all on ebay (it's surprising how much an MX5 ash tray is worth!). That should leave the best part of £1500 to start on some basic upgrades. A rollbar, a race seat and harness, some track biased brake pads and a very thorough service would be my first priorities.

[Matt UK]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, what's FI?

Forced Induction I guess (turbo/superchanging)