BL/AR/Rover Group - Where did it all go wrong?
Discussion
I've been giving this some thought after reading this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
I remember reading that Sir Alec Issigonis, a few years after finishing the Mini, designed a hatchback version but he management refused to produce it.
His hatchback design was years before they became the norm.
Just another example of how we, the British, have great ideas and let everyone else make money out of them.
His hatchback design was years before they became the norm.
Just another example of how we, the British, have great ideas and let everyone else make money out of them.
LHD said:
I've been giving this some thought after reading this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
I think in essence you answer your own question. The Allegro and Marina were never really dross - just bashed and perceived as such as we Brits beat ourselves up.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
At any point in time any of the cars where as good or better than the competition (maybe bar the last year or two, but even that is arguable).
In short there is no single reason, just a compound of issues. But how we the public and the media attacked them continually is a non quantifiable large scale contributor. For proof, just look at the Montego SOTW thread, see how many people post comments like POS yet it's evident they are speaking with little or no experience.
No other marque on PH receives such hatred and miss information. And in nearly all the cases unfounded and totally made up BS.
HTH
300bhp/ton said:
LHD said:
I've been giving this some thought after reading this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
I think in essence you answer your own question. The Allegro and Marina were never really dross - just bashed and perceived as such as we Brits beat ourselves up.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I drove past Longbridge a couple of weeks ago and there is virtually nothing left.
It's quite a sad sight.
The question is: Why did it all go wrong?
It's easy to point the finger at the unrest in the 70's but how can a company that produced the Mini, Range Rover and SD1 produce utter dross like the Marina and Allegro.
Was it the cars, the management or changing consumer tastes?
I have my theory but i'd like to hear yours.
At any point in time any of the cars where as good or better than the competition (maybe bar the last year or two, but even that is arguable).
In short there is no single reason, just a compound of issues. But how we the public and the media attacked them continually is a non quantifiable large scale contributor. For proof, just look at the Montego SOTW thread, see how many people post comments like POS yet it's evident they are speaking with little or no experience.
No other marque on PH receives such hatred and miss information. And in nearly all the cases unfounded and totally made up BS.
HTH
A whole multitude of sins, including poor build quality for decades, bad company management, products at least 5 years behind the competition and riding on the reputation of a once great band with substandard products.
The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
The problems were there before BL started. Bear in mind that BL was only amalgamated in 1968, and effectively shrank into Austin-Rover in 1981.
Leyland Motor Corporation, which was Triumph and Rover, as well as the commercial vehicles, was doing really well at that point. However, British Motor Holdings, which was Austin, Morris, MG, Jaguar, Riley et al was about bankrupt. There were no plans to replace the at that point 20 year old Morris Minor, the eight year old Austin 1100, the Mini, or any of the other larger 10 year old saloons.
All of the recently introduced cars were a bit rubbish (Maxi, Austin 1800, Austin 3 Litre. All of which had the same doors, but that's another story). It was impossible to imagine the 2/3rds of the British car industry could go to the wall, so BMH was merged with LMC to make BLMC.
The problem was that the Merger of Austin and the Nuffield Organisation back in 1962 to create BMC, which became BMH had been botched. Austin and Morris were direct competitors, but in the 6 years since merger, there had been no effort whatsoever to reduce the competition between the two divisions, and they were effectively still being run as separate companies. That meant that there were effectively two cars in each market sector, which did nothing for profitability. That was even before one started to look at all of the cars which were being made at a loss.
So what was done in the 13 years after the creation of BL was incredible given what they had to work with. The Marina went from a clean sheet of paper to production in under 3 years, and was a huge seller for the company.
Leyland Motor Corporation, which was Triumph and Rover, as well as the commercial vehicles, was doing really well at that point. However, British Motor Holdings, which was Austin, Morris, MG, Jaguar, Riley et al was about bankrupt. There were no plans to replace the at that point 20 year old Morris Minor, the eight year old Austin 1100, the Mini, or any of the other larger 10 year old saloons.
All of the recently introduced cars were a bit rubbish (Maxi, Austin 1800, Austin 3 Litre. All of which had the same doors, but that's another story). It was impossible to imagine the 2/3rds of the British car industry could go to the wall, so BMH was merged with LMC to make BLMC.
The problem was that the Merger of Austin and the Nuffield Organisation back in 1962 to create BMC, which became BMH had been botched. Austin and Morris were direct competitors, but in the 6 years since merger, there had been no effort whatsoever to reduce the competition between the two divisions, and they were effectively still being run as separate companies. That meant that there were effectively two cars in each market sector, which did nothing for profitability. That was even before one started to look at all of the cars which were being made at a loss.
So what was done in the 13 years after the creation of BL was incredible given what they had to work with. The Marina went from a clean sheet of paper to production in under 3 years, and was a huge seller for the company.
bazking69 said:
A whole multitude of sins, including poor build quality for decades, bad company management, products at least 5 years behind the competition and riding on the reputation of a once great band with substandard products.
The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
Just a shame that everything you've said there is pretty much wrong though.The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
davepoth said:
So what was done in the 13 years after the creation of BL was incredible given what they had to work with. The Marina went from a clean sheet of paper to production in under 3 years, and was a huge seller for the company.
Lever arm damper, like a Morris Minor?
Leaf Springs at the back?
Some had drum brakes on the front..
A/B series power plants which were hardly cutting edge?
300bhp/ton said:
bazking69 said:
A whole multitude of sins, including poor build quality for decades, bad company management, products at least 5 years behind the competition and riding on the reputation of a once great band with substandard products.
The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
Just a shame that everything you've said there is pretty much wrong though.The best products they ever produced were ripped from Honda or BMW.
Anyways this is an age old argument that everyone, including me, has had their say on on numerous occasions now. No need to rake it up yet again. You certainly won't change my opinion.
Edited by bazking69 on Friday 8th October 22:05
Awful build quality, even worse designs, crap image to anyone under 60, utterly terrible reliability, and worst of all disgraceful management..... I worked briefly for Rover, the attitude was that it was cheaper to fix warranty claims than improve the design & manufacture failings spoke volumes of the companys aspirations. They assumed that "being British" would be enough of a selling point for survival.
It didn't...
It didn't...
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