Not seen one of these for ages. What do you think?

[Emsman]

Is it good looking, reasonably practical,and great handling, or is it hideous, poorly conceived, and merely blunts the performance and handling of the 7 hiding beneath?

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C151606/

[DrTre]

I've always really liked them and was surprised they sold so slowly.

[Emsman]

I'm with you- I think they look fantastic, bit have only ever seen one in the flesh.

Didn't they do one in a bare aluminium finish? Bit of a precursor to all of the chromed things you see these days

[Hip2Bsquare]

Very nice IMHO, always liked them.

I am still amazed everytime I see how wide those door sill are

[lankybob]

Are those Mondeo rear lights?
If so it did the impossible and made them look good.

[Colin 1985]

How wide are those door seals?! Seams a lot of money for a 12 year old car, but do want.

Edited by Colin 1985 on Tuesday 19th October 23:19

[pauldm28]

Love it! But does seem to be stting a little high at the rear arches?


And just one more questionable thing. [Hope I'm not hijacking your topic]
Why do independant car makers persist in using "OEM" lights. Surely they could invest some money in a little bit of coloured plastic? Nice view at the front, sides & interior. But the rear view just shouted MONDEO! [Is it trying to be a Jaguar ;-)]


Others> is that BL SD1 on a TVR?


Vauxhall Senator on a Bristol?

Edited by pauldm28 on Tuesday 19th October 23:36

[EDLT]

pauldm28 said:

And just one more questionable thing. [Hope I'm not hijacking your topic]
Why do independant car makers persist in using "OEM" lights.

Because they are really expensive to design, manufacture then get approved for use on the road.

[OwenK]

EDLT said:

pauldm28 said:

And just one more questionable thing. [Hope I'm not hijacking your topic]
Why do independant car makers persist in using "OEM" lights.

Because they are really expensive to design, manufacture then get approved for use on the road.

As above, getting the actual lamp units approved for road use is expensive. So the options are to use lamp units that have already been approved (from other cars), or use standardised units from large manufacturers (Hella et al) which tend to look a bit naff.


edit: I used to be really keen on the Caterham 21 but its appeal has died off in recent years for me - looks a bit duck-like at the front and generally awkward. There's an interesting documentary about somewhere - probably available on youtube - looking back at the development of the 21 and why it wasn't a success. Essentially the Lotus Elise came along, and did everything the 21 was supposed to do, but did it better. I remember something about how Lotus had spent over £1m designing the doors for the Elise, which was a major chunk of the budget allocated to the 21! Caterham were struggling for cash at the time and couldn't afford to drop the dough on the project that it really needed, and unfortunately someone else got to the market first.

Edited by OwenK on Tuesday 19th October 23:50

[MondeoMan1981]

I've got the edition of Autocar where this was revealed. Article with the designer featuring a blue poly mock up and a polished bare metal version. Its in my parents loft or I would stick it on the scanner and post up. Would have been 1995?

[garethj]

I went to the factory when it was being developed because they were having trouble with the cooling system, the radiator was angled forwards so it was almost horizontal – almost no throughflow of air. I was taken for a blast in it and the handling and grip were amazing; we were zipping along a dual carriageway towards a roundabout and my brain was doing the old “brake now, brake now, brake HARD now, oh God you should have braked back there....” I thought that maybe we’d just make it if he clipped the apexes very tight and went straight over.

Then we turned left

Obviously the roundabouts near the factory were well practiced by everyone so he probably knew exactly how fast he could drive it, but it was still mighty impressive.

No idea how watertight the roof is, or boring things like that, but I can’t imagine it’s better compared to similar cars of the time.

[alfa pint]

Was really impressed by them when I first saw it. Huge boot, great handling, bit tight to squeeze in but in a nice way. Then I discovered you can't wind the windows down, which would make things interesting at the toll bridge I had to use frequently.

[Alfa numeric]

I sat in one in their showroom about 10 years ago and my abiding memory is of the size of the sills. Coupled with the low wheel it made getting into it more difficult than a standard 7. The boot is also massive and very secure as the release is hidden in the drivers door aperture. The one I sat in had a massive bass bin in it coupled to a bling stereo where the glovebox should have been.

I'd have one, but I think I want a 7 more.

This one's been for sale for a while though hasn't it? I seem to remember looking at it months ago.

Edited by Alfa numeric on Wednesday 20th October 09:27

[kambites]

Nice cars, but I struggle to see why anyone would buy one over an Elise. I guess everyone else had the same question, why is why you see Elises everywhere but no 21s. Shame really, with a bit of work (like some kind of opening windows) it could have been a nice choice for a daily driver.

[Chris71]

kambites said:

Nice cars, but I struggle to see why anyone would buy one over an Elise. I guess everyone else had the same question, why is why you see Elises everywhere but no 21s. Shame really, with a bit of work (like some kind of opening windows) it could have been a nice choice for a daily driver.

Front engine characteristics perhaps? A Seven is very easy to drive on the limit and I see no reason why a 21 shouldn't be too. Plus, some people just prefer the look of slightly-retro front-engined roadsters.

Ultimately I suspect a lot of it comes down to brand image. The iconic Caterham is the Seven without a doubt and the iconic Lotus - certainly of modern years - is the Elise. It's probably quite hard to introduce a second model to either, a bit like Porsche with the 928 or indeed Lotus with the (Elsie-based) Europa.

PS That example has been at Woodcote for some time. Flirted with the idea of trading my Roadsport in for it!

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 20th October 09:58

[Silverdaz]

lankybob said:

Are those Mondeo rear lights?
If so it did the impossible and made them look good.

Quite a few companies nick lights off other cars:
TVR used Cavilier mk2and3 rear lights and fiesta lights
Lamboghini used mk1 granda rear lights
Jag xj220 used upside down rover 200/400 rear lights
Noble has mk1 mondeo rear lights


Any others?

[300bhp/ton]

Emsman said:

Is it good looking, reasonably practical,and great handling, or is it hideous, poorly conceived, and merely blunts the performance and handling of the 7 hiding beneath?

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C151606/

I've always liked the shape of these, think they look great in fact. Saw a maroon/met brown one a good number of months back on a local bit of road. But that yellow one truly looks awesome in my view.

[kambites]

I guess so, but obviously not many people want a stripped out front engined roadster with fixed windows. I suspect eventually it was just a bit too close to the Seven on one side and the Elise on the other, both of which seem to make much more sense to me.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 20th October 10:02

[300bhp/ton]

Chris71 said:

kambites said:

Nice cars, but I struggle to see why anyone would buy one over an Elise. I guess everyone else had the same question, why is why you see Elises everywhere but no 21s. Shame really, with a bit of work (like some kind of opening windows) it could have been a nice choice for a daily driver.

Front engine characteristics perhaps? A Seven is very easy to drive on the limit and I see no reason why a 21 shouldn't be too. Plus, some people just prefer the look of slightly-retro front-engined roadsters.

Ultimately I suspect a lot of it comes down to brand image. The iconic Caterham is the Seven without a doubt and the iconic Lotus - certainly of modern years - is the Elise. It's probably quite hard to introduce a second model to either, a bit like Porsche with the 928 or indeed Lotus with the (Elsie-based) Europa.

PS That example has been at Woodcote for some time. Flirted with the idea of trading my Roadsport in for it!

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 20th October 09:58

Have to say I prefer the look of the 21 over an Elise. So if all other things were equal that would be enough.

But at the end of the day, the main reason to get a 21 over a 7 would be for practicality and better daily use. If it fails here then it just makes it an expensive option to get a heavier slower car than a 7.

Lack of roll down windows would in all likelihood be enough of a reason for me.

[kambites]

I agree that the 21 is a better looking car than the Elise, yes. That's not really high on my list of priorities, though.