Engine swap insurance

[ez64]

First post and wanted some info about an engine swap,

I'm a young driver and insure my cars in my own name, because of this I need to be able to go to most of the insurers for a competitive price.

I have a engine in a V12 jag that needs replacing, I want to replace it with the factory standard 3.6 straight six for fuel costs and ease of work/parts.

The bodywork is beautiful so I don't want to scrap it and everything else on it is perfect (brakes/steering/suspension) all had work done.

I don't want to put another V12 lump in there as they are a pain to pay for parts and work on let alone the fuel bill and small amount of power increase over the 3.6.

Question is if I swap the engine and inform the DVLA could I insure it as a standard 3.6 XJS or would I have to insure it as a modified V12 XJS with a 3.6 engine inside it.

If I had to do the latter the car wouldn't be worth anything for me as insuring a 3.6 is not too much but having to go to a specialist insurer that would accept engine swaps always give me horrific prices above the normal people.

Edited by ez64 on Friday 22 October 14:58

[louismchuge]

Classed as modified, might as well buy an original 3.6

[ez64]

Doing that requires me throwing away this XJS for scrap price and a brilliant body/parts along with it really.

You try finding me an XJS with a brilliant body and non working engine, the body is the only thing worthwhile.

Edited by ez64 on Friday 22 October 15:04

[300bhp/ton]

ez64 said:

First post and wanted some info about an engine swap,

I'm a young driver and insure my cars in my own name, because of this I need to be able to go to most of the insurers for a competitive price.

I have a engine in a V12 jag that needs replacing, I want to replace it with the factory standard 3.6 straight six for fuel costs and ease of work/parts.

The bodywork is beautiful so I don't want to scrap it and everything else on it is perfect (brakes/steering/suspension) all had work done.

I don't want to put another V12 lump in there as they are a pain to pay for parts and work on let alone the fuel bill and small amount of power increase over the 3.6.

Question is if I swap the engine and inform the DVLA could I insure it as a standard 3.6 XJS or would I have to insure it as a modified V12 XJS with a 3.6 engine inside it.

If I had to do the latter the car wouldn't be worth anything for me as insuring a 3.6 is not too much but having to go to a specialist insurer that would accept engine swaps always give me horrific prices above the normal people.

Edited by ez64 on Friday 22 October 14:58

DVLA are funnier these days with engine swaps. You may have to provide a letter from the company who fitted the engine. Well that's what they'll ask for.

Personally I'd go for another V12, it's what makes that car what it is. I know there's loads of talk about HP and such. But the V12 even with 3 crappy gears is still a fair chunk quicker than a 3.6

I'm also not sure the MPG is vastly different either. A HE V12 should do 11-15mpg and higher on a run, 16-18mpg maybe. A 3.6 isn't likely to do much better than 17/18mpg worst and 20'ish on a run. If you're doing 20k a year I can see it being worthwhile, but if it's more like 2-5k a year then it really isn't all that much money in real terms.

As for working on a V12, ok space is tight and spark plugs can be a pita. But the rest is ok IMO.

[inman999]

V12 is probably cheaper too

[Jgtv]

Buy a jag in the same colour with the engine and bits you want with slightly ropey bodywork, swapping pannels got to be easier than swapping engines right?

[300bhp/ton]

Jgtv said:

Buy a jag in the same colour with the engine and bits you want with slightly ropey bodywork, swapping pannels got to be easier than swapping engines right?

have you every tried swapping panels?

[ez64]

I have to do a Head gasket change on it which will be a bloody nightmare.

The ignition amplifiers also run into the hundreds of hundreds which tend to go wrong at any given time, the most I could get out of it when it was in great condition was 16mpg driving like a nun.

I have also driven a 3.6 model which has a lot less weight in the engine and is a hell of a lot easier for me to service and can hit 24mpg driving like a nun and not driving like a nun will usually get 15mpg, driving the same way with the V12 I have managed to get 5/6mpg and when hoofing it less than ONE yes LESS THAN ONE.

The V12 also has inadequate cooling from standard as the engine bay is far too small and the radiators were crap, I would feel much better knowing Ive got something much more reliable under the hood and something If I need to rebuild it would cost far less.

Would buying another 3.6 and transferring the VINS over be an option to keep the shell? everything would be the same as the 3.6 year model or is this illegal?

I might just throw the car away and forget the XJS if this is the only option or rebuild the V12 and sell it and buy a performance car for myself.

All I wanted to know is that can it be classed as a standard 3.6 car with the relevant documents to the DVLA or can it only be classed as a modified car, providing the DVLA with an engineers report has been a standard for years.

I did not want 50 questions about why im doing this, thank you to the people that did answer with helpful posts but the reason Ive never joined this forum before is because of the trolls that give blank uniformed answers that help nobody seem to be in high quantities here.

If you dont have the answer dont reply simple.

Edited by ez64 on Friday 22 October 15:29

[300bhp/ton]

ez64 said:

I have to do a Head gasket change on it which will be a bloody nightmare.

Probably easier to swap in another V12. I believe separating the alloy heads from the iron block can be a challenge.

ez64 said:

The ignition amplifiers also run into the hundreds of hundreds which tend to go wrong at any given time

I'll take your word for it, never had an issue with mine in 5 years of ownership.

ez64 said:

the most I could get out of it when it was in great condition was 16mpg driving like a nun.

I never actually worked out the mpg on mine. Although my Dad had a 6.0 litre XJ40. The trip on that said 15/16 most of the time and over 18-20mpg on a long run.

ez64 said:

I have also driven a 3.6 model which has a lot less weight in the engine and is a hell of a lot easier for me to service.

I agree access is easier and they are lighter and I actually really like the S6. That said my Dad had an auto 3.6 XJ40, a manual 3.6 XJ40 and an auto 4.0 x300. None were close to the performance of the V12 IMO.

ez64 said:

The V12 also has inadequate cooling from standard as the engine bay is far too small and the radiators were crap

Again I agree, although they sold the XJS for 21 years and in hot countries. I don't recall overheating being a major issue with them.

ez64 said:

I would feel much better knowing Ive got something much more reliable under the hood and something If I need to rebuild it would cost far less.

I always though the V12 was reliable, although if you've got a HG failure I see that you quite reasonably wouldn't agree.

How much cheaper would an S6 truly be to rebuild? Ok half the pistons and half the heads. But are you really planning a rebuild?

ez64 said:

Would buying another 3.6 and transferring the VINS over be an option to keep the shell? everything would be the same as the 3.6 year model or this illegal?

Yep this technically would not be legal. That said it would be very difficult to prove it had been done and if you didn't tell anyone why would they question it?

Car identity is a hot topic though. So making 1 good car out of 2 is really actually frowned upon.

ez64 said:

I might just throw the car away and forget the XJS if this is the only option or rebuild the V12 and sell it and buy a performance car for myself.

Don't throw it away. I'd have it (PM me if you want).

But if it's a good shell I'd try and get it running again.

But I do feel a V12 with a swapped in 6 would massively devalue it and make it harder to sell. I also don't see it being a straight swap. Sure it should be an easy'ish swap, but I suspect there might be more too it - gearbox and potentially axle ratio.

An AJ16 supercharged engine, now I can see the gain here. But to put an engine with less HP and Torque in just doesn't seem right to me.

How about LPG'ing a V12 engine? Wouldn't solve the HG issue or access, but it would mean mpg costs neater to 20-25mpg+

[eybic]

I remember years ago I sold my Nove GTE to a lad, the engine was knackered so he was going to put a 1.2 in it, the insurers would have classed it as a GTE and he couldn't afford that so it sat on his drive rotting for years

[davepoth]

The DVLA won't give a crap about this - they are only bothered if the car crosses a tax threshold as a result of the engine swap meaning they may be missing out on money. All you'll need to do is send them a copy of the receipt for the engine and it'll be fine.

As regards insurance, mainstream insurers will baulk at it, but all of the specialist and classic insurers will most likely look on it sympathetically, especially as it is a lower powered engine.

[KenBlocksPants]

If the panels are so mint and worth the cash couldnt you break it for much more than the scrap value offered?

I know it goes against keeping it on the road, but purely from a monetary perspective it is better than selling for scrap?
Then buy a decent I6?

[ez64]

Thanks for the replys guys,

The 5.3 is quite different to the 6 and MPG really is that bad, overheating was a major major issue as the jaguar big wigs would not accept the cars for company cars as they were so unreliable in there flagship form.

replacing the 4 pass radiator with an all ALU modern 2 pass is the solution on the kirbys handbook, (XJS Bible) reliability on everything was always a major issue and lucas ignition problems are frequent.

I just dont want the hassle of that engine as I know what its like to work on and is not fun.

Went to see the car today and it needs chassis work so ive pretty much given it to the guy that wants to drive it and restore it himself.

Worthless car and I will only buy a 3.6 in future.

Edited by ez64 on Saturday 23 October 12:59

[Jez64]

Had me going for a minute then.....

[Compo_Simmonite]

I once was offered a Lotus Cortina MKII by a friend. He had someone interested in just the engine so I was considering it and fitting a 1600GT lump. Insurers said they would still class as Lotus that had been modified and there might even be a higher premium despite the GT engine being lower power.

Paul H

[vit4]

I was speaking to a mechanic about this. He had a Fiesta XR2 as his first car, going back a few years. He rang the insurers to get a quote if he ran it with a 1.3 engine until he had his first year's NCB. It came out significantly more, purely because it was modified from standard. Madness.