Do engines need to be run in anymore?
Discussion
Hi folks,
This question has been bugging me for a while. Now I work in the motor trade and have spoken to quite a few different mechanics, salesmen etc and the answer always varies.
My background is from motorsport before I joined the motor trade and have built quite a few engines, so I can fully understand the reason why running an engine in is SO important. However, like I have said above some manufacturers say this is no longer the case. Partly because oil technology has improved and engines have been partly run in before they have left the factory.
So what do you ph'ers think?
Vin
This question has been bugging me for a while. Now I work in the motor trade and have spoken to quite a few different mechanics, salesmen etc and the answer always varies.
My background is from motorsport before I joined the motor trade and have built quite a few engines, so I can fully understand the reason why running an engine in is SO important. However, like I have said above some manufacturers say this is no longer the case. Partly because oil technology has improved and engines have been partly run in before they have left the factory.
So what do you ph'ers think?
Vin
i'd say yes. not sure about some engines, but the E92 M3 my father picked up had to be run in gently with strict instructions not to rev beyond about 2/3 of max rpm, no full throttle and to drive at varying speeds and engine revs for the first 1100 miles or so. it also needed a "run-in" service, which was done at a tad before 1000 miles which was simple an oil change.
the same was said of my mates Audi RS4 and another's ford focus ST.
seems that way. although these engines are (except to a certain extent the focus st) high revving, high performance engines. "normal" engines may be slightly different but i'd still personally treat them very gently for the first 1200 miles or so.
the same was said of my mates Audi RS4 and another's ford focus ST.
seems that way. although these engines are (except to a certain extent the focus st) high revving, high performance engines. "normal" engines may be slightly different but i'd still personally treat them very gently for the first 1200 miles or so.
E21_Ross said:
i'd say yes. not sure about some engines, but the E92 M3 my father picked up had to be run in gently with strict instructions not to rev beyond about 2/3 of max rpm, no full throttle and to drive at varying speeds and engine revs for the first 1100 miles or so. it also needed a "run-in" service, which was done at a tad before 1000 miles which was simple an oil change.
the same was said of my mates Audi RS4 and another's ford focus ST.
seems that way. although these engines are (except to a certain extent the focus st) high revving, high performance engines. "normal" engines may be slightly different but i'd still personally treat them very gently for the first 1200 miles or so.
My dads M3 has exactly the same running in period. That first service though is a killer. Thank god BMW now do a service plan, otherwise that would be a hard pill to take.the same was said of my mates Audi RS4 and another's ford focus ST.
seems that way. although these engines are (except to a certain extent the focus st) high revving, high performance engines. "normal" engines may be slightly different but i'd still personally treat them very gently for the first 1200 miles or so.
When I bought a C2 vts from new (whoops), I was advised not to go over 3k for the first 1000 miles. Of which I did, but then my friend did the complete opposite with the same car and his went wrong less than mine did.. I think mine was a Friday afternoon car to be honest.
I don't think they need running in because they're usually revved to the limiter before they leave the factory.
Dealers like you to run them in because there's less chance of you stuffing the car straight away and they probably make some servicing money out of you while the car's under warranty.
Dealers like you to run them in because there's less chance of you stuffing the car straight away and they probably make some servicing money out of you while the car's under warranty.
I am a believer of the theory that load kills engines, not revs. So as long as the car isnt booted from cold then I can't see how a running in period is absolutely necessary. You can rev the car round to highish revs without placing much load on the engine ie. 1/4 throttle which will bed in some of the components.
I think the main thing manufacturers recommend it for is to cover their arses with warranty claims etc. I know when I used to read the m5board.com when the new E60 came out there was a length discussion as to whether to follow the run-in period strictly or to just get out there and hammer it. I think there were a few people who bucked the trend with no horror stories so far.
It can make for interesting debate though.
I think the main thing manufacturers recommend it for is to cover their arses with warranty claims etc. I know when I used to read the m5board.com when the new E60 came out there was a length discussion as to whether to follow the run-in period strictly or to just get out there and hammer it. I think there were a few people who bucked the trend with no horror stories so far.
It can make for interesting debate though.
My coinage...
Thrash it from the start. From my understanding the 2 main things to 'run in' are the piston rings and the camshaft. Everything else falls into negligence as the accuracy of modern machining just makes it unnecessary.
Running in a camshaft involves keeping the engine at a very high idle for an extended period of time. Contrary to popular belief, the faster the cam and valves are worked, the lower the load they are under. Doing this stops lobes going round and followers being ruined.
The problem with running the engine under no load to run in the camshaft is that the piston rings will have had a relatively low combustion pressure behind them, so the honing will not accuratley wear against the rings. This is vital for a good seal between the combustion chamber and crankcase. IE, good compression and low blowby.
With this in mind, my running in involves a brisk drive for, say, 100 miles, while under high loads and never falling below 2krpm. Then change the oil as soon when i get back.
Thrash it from the start. From my understanding the 2 main things to 'run in' are the piston rings and the camshaft. Everything else falls into negligence as the accuracy of modern machining just makes it unnecessary.
Running in a camshaft involves keeping the engine at a very high idle for an extended period of time. Contrary to popular belief, the faster the cam and valves are worked, the lower the load they are under. Doing this stops lobes going round and followers being ruined.
The problem with running the engine under no load to run in the camshaft is that the piston rings will have had a relatively low combustion pressure behind them, so the honing will not accuratley wear against the rings. This is vital for a good seal between the combustion chamber and crankcase. IE, good compression and low blowby.
With this in mind, my running in involves a brisk drive for, say, 100 miles, while under high loads and never falling below 2krpm. Then change the oil as soon when i get back.
Edited by sparkybean on Saturday 23 October 13:54
Boosted LS1 said:
A lot of manufactures will hammer a sample engine from a cold start just to discover if there are any tolerence issues. If there are they redesign the componant part to allow for abusive and ignorant drivers. I believe the rings are bedded in when the engine's test run.
This is more than likely true, i know of a few cases where engines are put on an engine dyno, and 'given hell' from 0 miles. So at a consumer level, running in may not even be necessary.Edited by sparkybean on Saturday 23 October 13:57
When I bought my type r , the director said : drive it as fast as you can , the ecu will learn your type of driving and it will give you more performance . Safe to say I had a little play with a 1 year old type r who had it's 1st service and I done him by quite a bit . The owner wasn't impressed much as normally they get faster after 10000 miles or the 1st service
If I was buying a brand new car with my own money, then yep.. I'd run it in properly. It might be heresay or a throwback to when you used to have to run them in properly because of tolerances and so forth, but given that there is so much uncertainty, why take the risk? Are you that childish and impatient that you can't manage a month or so of driving around without ragging the t!ts off the thing?
frosted said:
When I bought my type r , the director said : drive it as fast as you can , the ecu will learn your type of driving and it will give you more performance . Safe to say I had a little play with a 1 year old type r who had it's 1st service and I done him by quite a bit . The owner wasn't impressed much as normally they get faster after 10000 miles or the 1st service
His Vtec probably just hadn't kicked in yo.Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff