The EP3 Civic Type R - Still good?
Discussion
Following on from a discussion (with the Mrs actually, which surprised me!) I was wondering how the old breadvan stands against the current crop of Boosted Hot Hatches. Its Handling, steering and gear change all collected many an accolade from the motoring press however does the rev happy nature of the VTEC engine take any enjoyment from the torque happy nature of a turbo'd engine on the market now? (Corsa VXR, Pug 1.6THP, Mini Cooper T,)
Also how has it aged against it's contempary counterparts, the Golf GTI Mk5, Vectra VXR and the Focus ST, all in your opinion of course.
Also how has it aged against it's contempary counterparts, the Golf GTI Mk5, Vectra VXR and the Focus ST, all in your opinion of course.
randomman said:
The Type R, yes, although that was 3 years ago and I've yet to step into the current cream of the crop. I loved it, although I didn't have to live with it and the one I drove had about 11k on the clock and I would imagine very few can say such numbers now!
I loved mine and have driven new ST etc / Corsa VXR, depends what style of driving you like.matthewg said:
I loved mine and have driven new ST etc / Corsa VXR, depends what style of driving you like.
At the time it's lower torque output and the requirement to 'rag it' were offset by 200bhp through the wheels of a sorted chassis, but is it more recognisable now compared to the turbo torrque boost buckets on sale today?Also is the engine as reliable at 100k+ as everyone thought it would be?
I did 125,000 miles in mine. No car before it or after had the same combination of no bulls
t aura and grin when you need it. It'll divide opinions, but then what doesn't? It's a different thing to the Leons, MINIs and Golf GTIs of this world, in that it was never trying to be the one car in the household that can do everything.
Enjoy it for what it is.
Only downside of mine was the awfully unreliable power steering (3 racks and 3 control units in 23 months).
t aura and grin when you need it. It'll divide opinions, but then what doesn't? It's a different thing to the Leons, MINIs and Golf GTIs of this world, in that it was never trying to be the one car in the household that can do everything.Enjoy it for what it is.
Only downside of mine was the awfully unreliable power steering (3 racks and 3 control units in 23 months).
Harry Monk said:
randomman said:
Its Handling, steering and gear change all collected many an accolade from the motoring press
Was anyone ever enamoured of the steering? Even when it's working, it just shows how far electrically assisted steering has developed.randomman said:
I was wondering how the old breadvan stands against the current crop of Boosted Hot Hatches.
Also how has it aged against it's contempary counterparts, the Golf GTI Mk5, Vectra VXR and the Focus ST, all in your opinion of course.
My 2p's worth. Coming from a 280 bhp volvo 850 t5r manual and stepping into an ep3 type R was quite strange at first tbh. It felt a heck of a lot newer obviously but the lack of torque made it feel a bit lame below the vtec. I also have a civic aerodeck vti-s with lsd and this feels old and quite heavy compared to the ep3.Also how has it aged against it's contempary counterparts, the Golf GTI Mk5, Vectra VXR and the Focus ST, all in your opinion of course.
So, you ask how does it compare to modern day turbo'ed cars? I'd say on the right road at the right time the civic is just as much fun trying to keep up with the faster cars if that makes sense.
Puts a smile on my face every time hear the vtec, find myself nipping out for random pints of milk etc lol
longdogger
randomman said:
Also how has it aged against it's contempary counterparts, the Golf GTI Mk5, Vectra VXR and the Focus ST, all in your opinion of course.
Not sure how you get the Vectra in there (presume you mean Astra).Had an EP3 (@ 50k) and now have an ST (80k up). Different ethos TBH - Light & a bit wobbly vs heavy, effort vs big easy, Rage Against The Machine Vs Tom Jones (or something like that
), unreliability vs solidity (surprisingly) and Dick Turpin vs ordinary but at least honest dealer.Civic was good fun and if nothing else, I'd love a bit of that sublime gearchange again.
10 Pence Short said:
Harry Monk said:
Was anyone ever enamoured of the steering? Even when it's working, it just shows how far electrically assisted steering has developed.
It might not have had the most feel, but it was perfectly weighted and geared, on the first edition, anyway.EP3 has very vague steering, so it seems rather dull to drive for a hot hatch. No idea if the newer hatches are any better. But for me the EP3 was hugely over rated compared to old school raw hatches. Neither can it compete with the sheer effortless pace of something modern and comfy like an R32. So it falls into a no mans land. Not particularly good at anything in particular. Shame, as I was looking at getting one. Go drive them all...
Edited by k-ink on Sunday 31st October 13:01
I've had a fair few cars over the years and most of them have been turbo charged, so changing to my EP3 Type R a couple of months ago was something quite different. It's a low mile, properly maintained example with a full history, no modifications and no stupid after market wheels etc.
Firstly, I was initially put off even viewing one by some of the comments I read on here. No power, gutless etc etc. Let me say this is pretty much crap. Although it's certainly not got the shove of a turbo car, the power is more than adequate enough to keep up with traffic without revving it to death. It'll sit at 30 mph in 5th easily, and still pull away cleanly enough. Even on the motorway in 6th it pulls equally as good as most TDi rep mobiles I've driven.
I've found it's kind of an all or nothing experience. Below 5k revs it's sedate, but keep it above 5k all the way to 8.4k and it really is pretty damn potent. And once you shift up at the rev limit you'll still be in the power band in the next gear and it'll keep pulling and pulling. This characteristic maybe doesn't suit everyday driving and maybe doesn't offer the flexibility of a turbo engine, or even any other relatively powerful normally aspirated car with a more linear power delivery. It's all a matter of taste - personally I like this jeckyl and hide nature.
Even when compared to more modern day hot hatches it can still hold its own. It's as quick as most right up to 100 mph judging from the figures given in the back as Evo. It handles well in the bends too.
Reliability wise they're about as good as you'll get so long as they're looked after. The K20 engines are supposedly bomb proof if serviced as they should be. And the gear change is excellent, probably the best gearbox I've used. Overall, the rest of the car feels solid enough. Servicing costs are reasonable enough. I think the dearest is £350 for a level 4 which is a major one with tappet adjustments. Minor ones are £120 or so. Most dealers offer fixed price servicing.
They're a bit buzzy and boomy on the motorway, despite being capable enough, and although not uncomfortable there are nicer places to be when covering big distances.
MPG wise I'm averaging 32 when driving carefully. Thrash it and you'll get low to mid 20s.
2004+ models saw a change in clutch, flywheel, steering, bumpers, light clusters and indicators on the mirrors. The Final Editions are the ones to look out for - they've cracking Recaro seats.
I paid £6800 for a pretty mint 2 '04 plate with 35k miles, full Honda history and a new set of tyres.
Firstly, I was initially put off even viewing one by some of the comments I read on here. No power, gutless etc etc. Let me say this is pretty much crap. Although it's certainly not got the shove of a turbo car, the power is more than adequate enough to keep up with traffic without revving it to death. It'll sit at 30 mph in 5th easily, and still pull away cleanly enough. Even on the motorway in 6th it pulls equally as good as most TDi rep mobiles I've driven.
I've found it's kind of an all or nothing experience. Below 5k revs it's sedate, but keep it above 5k all the way to 8.4k and it really is pretty damn potent. And once you shift up at the rev limit you'll still be in the power band in the next gear and it'll keep pulling and pulling. This characteristic maybe doesn't suit everyday driving and maybe doesn't offer the flexibility of a turbo engine, or even any other relatively powerful normally aspirated car with a more linear power delivery. It's all a matter of taste - personally I like this jeckyl and hide nature.
Even when compared to more modern day hot hatches it can still hold its own. It's as quick as most right up to 100 mph judging from the figures given in the back as Evo. It handles well in the bends too.
Reliability wise they're about as good as you'll get so long as they're looked after. The K20 engines are supposedly bomb proof if serviced as they should be. And the gear change is excellent, probably the best gearbox I've used. Overall, the rest of the car feels solid enough. Servicing costs are reasonable enough. I think the dearest is £350 for a level 4 which is a major one with tappet adjustments. Minor ones are £120 or so. Most dealers offer fixed price servicing.
They're a bit buzzy and boomy on the motorway, despite being capable enough, and although not uncomfortable there are nicer places to be when covering big distances.
MPG wise I'm averaging 32 when driving carefully. Thrash it and you'll get low to mid 20s.
2004+ models saw a change in clutch, flywheel, steering, bumpers, light clusters and indicators on the mirrors. The Final Editions are the ones to look out for - they've cracking Recaro seats.
I paid £6800 for a pretty mint 2 '04 plate with 35k miles, full Honda history and a new set of tyres.
they are good cars, but i personally much prefer the engine of a turbocharged hot hatch.
i have known 3 people to own type-r`s, one had it for 4 years and 50k miles and loved every minute of it but crashed it a few times causing it to be reprayed a lot and it looked pretty patchy by the time he got rid. one had one for 10 months and decided it was not so good for an everyday car due to the ride and lack of torque as he does a lot of motorway driving and my other friend has had his 6 months and will be selling up soon purely due to the harshness of the ride.
i have known 3 people to own type-r`s, one had it for 4 years and 50k miles and loved every minute of it but crashed it a few times causing it to be reprayed a lot and it looked pretty patchy by the time he got rid. one had one for 10 months and decided it was not so good for an everyday car due to the ride and lack of torque as he does a lot of motorway driving and my other friend has had his 6 months and will be selling up soon purely due to the harshness of the ride.
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