Car insurance can really mess you up
Discussion
Not the individual personally but the RBS brands, Direct Line, Churchill, Privilege, NIG.
I know everyone feels they get ripped off on car insurance, but RBS has just posted a loss of £33million for Q3 2010, following a loss of £203million in Q2 2010. This is for their whole insurance book.
Injury claims on car insurance have totally destroyed their whole book, but even taking out special reserving, they've paid out £100.20 for every £100 received in premium.
Get ready for a lot more premium rises in the coming years.
How long would you continue in that line of business for?
I know everyone feels they get ripped off on car insurance, but RBS has just posted a loss of £33million for Q3 2010, following a loss of £203million in Q2 2010. This is for their whole insurance book.
Injury claims on car insurance have totally destroyed their whole book, but even taking out special reserving, they've paid out £100.20 for every £100 received in premium.
Get ready for a lot more premium rises in the coming years.
How long would you continue in that line of business for?
Just renewed my Piaggio X9500 insurance.
31, 7 years no claims, no convictions, no points.
Last year was £106 fully comp, this year was £121.
Not a huge rise, but by %age that would be fairly big if it was £1000 a year...
I did all the usual comparison site rubbish as well, it was the best quote by far.
Thankyou all you f
kers out there who claimed for st you didn't actually need.
31, 7 years no claims, no convictions, no points.
Last year was £106 fully comp, this year was £121.
Not a huge rise, but by %age that would be fairly big if it was £1000 a year...
I did all the usual comparison site rubbish as well, it was the best quote by far.
Thankyou all you f
kers out there who claimed for st you didn't actually need.bazking69 said:
I'm not looking forward to my renewal next Febuary for sure. The whole compo culture is getting out of hand.
What's getting out of hand is insurance fraud. That's what we pay for. Fictitious injuries, fictitious passengers, fictitious accidents.It's big business, and insurance comapnies pay huge amounts of money each year on tackling the problem. The 'compensation culture' causes more people to claim (justifiably or otherwise), but it hasn't yet resulted in exorbitant payouts. There are guidance figures for injuries, and associated losses.
Edited by Doofus on Friday 5th November 20:12
To be fair they aren't squeaky clean themselves. A friend of mine is being hounded by another insurance company who believe their client even though they ploughed into a busy rounabout and caused 4 cars to crash.
Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
A friend of mine rear ended an Audi at about 10mph in his Pug 306. They got out and swapped details but the Audi had no apparently damage (Audi value about £5k).
His 306 was a GTI-6 bought for £3k a year earlier and it was a boarderline write-off (bumper, front beam, headlight, air con condenser) but they repaired it and all was well.
When renewing the following year, his new company needed to know the value of the claim so he called up his current company to find out.
His repair was around £1300 but the other party had claimed alot more. Including hire car costs, van rental costs for 3 weeks, personal injury cover and time off work, it was £21,000
His 306 was a GTI-6 bought for £3k a year earlier and it was a boarderline write-off (bumper, front beam, headlight, air con condenser) but they repaired it and all was well.
When renewing the following year, his new company needed to know the value of the claim so he called up his current company to find out.
His repair was around £1300 but the other party had claimed alot more. Including hire car costs, van rental costs for 3 weeks, personal injury cover and time off work, it was £21,000
omgus said:
R1 Loon said:
Bad insurance stuff
That's not good. Is there any way that it can become a profitable business model without a fundamental change to the wholes system?The issue is RBSi is the dominant player in the UK market, if they withdraw (no suggestion they will, but parent company has to stem losses oterwise another government handout is on the cards). The less insurers, the less the competition, the more prices rise.
Sorry forgot the link to the full story
http://www.broking.co.uk/insurance-age/news/186955...
Edited by R1 Loon on Friday 5th November 20:38
if the police/legal system had enough resource, power or cared or whatever was needed to put people away for all the hooky claims this might help.
armed robbery, 20k if you are lucky, get caught 15 years.
100k complex fraudluent accident/injury claim - if the insurers pay for an investigation and get proof the only consequence is the claim doesnt get paid. even then the claimant has the right of appeal with the ombudsman and must just try again. a lot of the time the inusrers will just pay out some or all of the claims to save hassle and potential counter claims and avoid legal fees.
those that make the press and where people do get sent down are rare at best and propoganda at worst.
i have handed signed statements/criminal cases on a plate to the police with confessions by claimants of insurance fraud and the police reaction is normally nothing more than a eyebrow raise.
it has been this way for at least 20 years and will continue to be so. the 'sharing of information' by insurers to help prevent this kind of thing is lip service/scare tactics. the reason your premiums are rising is because more people are chosing it as a career path. joe public seeing insurance payouts as somehow their right when minor things happen doesn't help the situation.
throw in a lot of administrative ineptitude and you actually create jobs for insurance investigators, loss adjustors and dodgy claimants but very little else of any value comes from the current system.
the reality is, the system is fundamentally broken and allows people to get away with it.The ethos of the purpose of insurance was lost a long time ago.
armed robbery, 20k if you are lucky, get caught 15 years.
100k complex fraudluent accident/injury claim - if the insurers pay for an investigation and get proof the only consequence is the claim doesnt get paid. even then the claimant has the right of appeal with the ombudsman and must just try again. a lot of the time the inusrers will just pay out some or all of the claims to save hassle and potential counter claims and avoid legal fees.
those that make the press and where people do get sent down are rare at best and propoganda at worst.
i have handed signed statements/criminal cases on a plate to the police with confessions by claimants of insurance fraud and the police reaction is normally nothing more than a eyebrow raise.
it has been this way for at least 20 years and will continue to be so. the 'sharing of information' by insurers to help prevent this kind of thing is lip service/scare tactics. the reason your premiums are rising is because more people are chosing it as a career path. joe public seeing insurance payouts as somehow their right when minor things happen doesn't help the situation.
throw in a lot of administrative ineptitude and you actually create jobs for insurance investigators, loss adjustors and dodgy claimants but very little else of any value comes from the current system.
the reality is, the system is fundamentally broken and allows people to get away with it.The ethos of the purpose of insurance was lost a long time ago.
I was riding in a taxi recently when we got cut up, which triggered a few comments about getting the other driver back. The taxi driver suggested he should have shunted the car then claimed we all had whiplash. I questioned the honesty of this and said I wouldn't claim for something I didn't have, which totally dumbfounded the taxi driver. He then said he had 2 whiplash claims pending. It seems insurance fraud was a handy way to top up his wage. Him and how many others?
Any idea what it's like for other Euro countries Loon? Is everyone having the same problem? If so, is it to a similar / lesser / greater extent?
My bike insurance has gone down this year, but car insurance has gone daft. Surely a huge part of the increases people have been experiencing is recovering losses from last winter?
My bike insurance has gone down this year, but car insurance has gone daft. Surely a huge part of the increases people have been experiencing is recovering losses from last winter?
Edited by Stu R on Saturday 6th November 09:39
Fleckers said:
RBS aka the Cats AR53 look at the symbol
I hope they go bust
yes I used to work for them
I sincerely hope this does not happen, and I am one of their competitors. As with their bank they are just too big to go down. The fallout and rating structures that would follow would be horrendous.I hope they go bust
yes I used to work for them
A great post by the originator and some excellent replies by the way.
magpie215 said:
Just had my renewal 100% increase on last years premium....best other quotes I can get is 50% up on last year.
basically car is going not prepared to pay it.
going to get a cheap and nasty small cc to run about in.
I am not sure where you live but if it is one or the lancashire towns (along with virtually every large town in the uk by the way) then where you live may be the overriding factor in your rate increase. Arranged claims are becomming endemic in certain areas and insurers are simply unwilling to write business in them. If it were not for some direct insurers like RBSI, Admiral, etc., then some parts of the uk would be uninsurable for vehicles (hence my previous post). If this happens them I assume the only course of action would be a government insurance scheme for third party cover. Imagine 2 or 3 cars in an accident all having to claim of one beaurocratic body and expect them to make a decision!basically car is going not prepared to pay it.
going to get a cheap and nasty small cc to run about in.
It is rather like the household book of business where insurers will simply not insure certian high risk flood zones. I am afraid that until defences are improved then it will get worse.
ridds said:
To be fair they aren't squeaky clean themselves. A friend of mine is being hounded by another insurance company who believe their client even though they ploughed into a busy rounabout and caused 4 cars to crash.
Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
I had a similar incident last year.Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
Coming around a roundabout in the left hand lane, young lad flying around the roundabout in the right lane loses control and understeers directly into the railings on my left about 10 yards away from me. I clip his rear wing and he admits all liability at the scene.
He then goes on to admit losing control on all of the insurance forms and on recorded calls.
About 2 months later he changes his story to suggest I'd rammed him off the road, both insurance companies agree his version of events isn't plausable yet he launches a personal injury claim and my insurance company then decided to go 50/50 to avoid going to court.
So now he stands to win on a insurance claim whilst I get nothing, get a mark against my insurance and a increased premium.
Ordinary_Chap said:
ridds said:
To be fair they aren't squeaky clean themselves. A friend of mine is being hounded by another insurance company who believe their client even though they ploughed into a busy rounabout and caused 4 cars to crash.
Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
I had a similar incident last year.Woman admitted liability at the scene yet now it's all turned around. This is after they have paid out purely to get him out of a hire car!
If they were more efficient and looked at available data better they might not incur such huge losses.
Coming around a roundabout in the left hand lane, young lad flying around the roundabout in the right lane loses control and understeers directly into the railings on my left about 10 yards away from me. I clip his rear wing and he admits all liability at the scene.
He then goes on to admit losing control on all of the insurance forms and on recorded calls.
About 2 months later he changes his story to suggest I'd rammed him off the road, both insurance companies agree his version of events isn't plausable yet he launches a personal injury claim and my insurance company then decided to go 50/50 to avoid going to court.
So now he stands to win on a insurance claim whilst I get nothing, get a mark against my insurance and a increased premium.
And so the whole cycle begins again
Something needs to be done about the whole credit hire / credit repair industry.
A company that can arrange for a driveable car to sit in a bodyshop for 2-3 weeks while an estimate is authorised and parts ordered and all the while charge astronomical hire car fees are really causing issues.
I have big problems with the likes of helphire and the other "accident management" companies. Thankfully their profit and loss statement is beginning to reflect their underhand business strategy.
A company that can arrange for a driveable car to sit in a bodyshop for 2-3 weeks while an estimate is authorised and parts ordered and all the while charge astronomical hire car fees are really causing issues.
I have big problems with the likes of helphire and the other "accident management" companies. Thankfully their profit and loss statement is beginning to reflect their underhand business strategy.
Doofus said:
bazking69 said:
I'm not looking forward to my renewal next Febuary for sure. The whole compo culture is getting out of hand.
What's getting out of hand is insurance fraud. That's what we pay for. Fictitious injuries, fictitious passengers, fictitious accidents.It's big business, and insurance comapnies pay huge amounts of money each year on tackling the problem. The 'compensation culture' causes more people to claim (justifiably or otherwise), but it hasn't yet resulted in exorbitant payouts. There are guidance figures for injuries, and associated losses.
Edited by Doofus on Friday 5th November 20:12
And saved £106 from the renewal....with same benefits.... EU/UK full breakdown plus Legal costs...Protected NCD..... so in essence £26 cheaper than last renewal....BUT.... instead of £250 voluntary excess..... Zero VE.... result...
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