Mixing summer and all-season tyres
Discussion
OK or not?
Note I am not refering to full blown winter tyres, rather all-season. Is clear that winter tyres need to be on both axles.
I have recently bought a pair of Vredestein Quatrac 3 to go on the back of a Mercedes 300CE. The current combination of bald Dunlop and Pirelli P6000 leaves something to be desired
On the front are Vredestein Hi-trac (a summer tyre) of unknown vintage but with plenty of tread fitted by previous owner.
I opted for the Quatrac 3 ( http://www.vredestein.co.uk/Banden_Bandtypes.asp?U...) as the car is essentially a winter work hack and I cover 116 miles a day so thought some additional cold weather grip may be prudent on the driven wheels, without going the full hog on winter tyres all round. Being billed an 'all-weather' tyre I did not think there would be any great issue mixing with a summer tyre on the front axle. Perhaps this was naive?
The tyre fitter refused to fit them as he took one look at the tread pattern and said it was a winter tyre so needs a complete set. My protests that it was not a winter tyre and that compound matters as much as tread pattern fell on deaf ears. Was he right?
Intention was to switch front axle over to a matching pair once I had got a few more miles out of them.
A quick poll of two other local fitters was inconclusive. One did not supply such tyres so would not comment. The other would have fitted them on the basis that it was my choice but did suggest there could be handling imbalance (unfortunately he only fitted tyres supplied by himself!).
FWIW (that'll be £160!
) I have bit the bullet and ordered another pair for the front as I've now got myself in a bit of a catch-22 as regards what to do with the two new tyres I have and don't have time to f
k-about. A matching set is the optimum after all.
Note I am not refering to full blown winter tyres, rather all-season. Is clear that winter tyres need to be on both axles.
I have recently bought a pair of Vredestein Quatrac 3 to go on the back of a Mercedes 300CE. The current combination of bald Dunlop and Pirelli P6000 leaves something to be desired
On the front are Vredestein Hi-trac (a summer tyre) of unknown vintage but with plenty of tread fitted by previous owner.I opted for the Quatrac 3 ( http://www.vredestein.co.uk/Banden_Bandtypes.asp?U...) as the car is essentially a winter work hack and I cover 116 miles a day so thought some additional cold weather grip may be prudent on the driven wheels, without going the full hog on winter tyres all round. Being billed an 'all-weather' tyre I did not think there would be any great issue mixing with a summer tyre on the front axle. Perhaps this was naive?
The tyre fitter refused to fit them as he took one look at the tread pattern and said it was a winter tyre so needs a complete set. My protests that it was not a winter tyre and that compound matters as much as tread pattern fell on deaf ears. Was he right?
Intention was to switch front axle over to a matching pair once I had got a few more miles out of them.
A quick poll of two other local fitters was inconclusive. One did not supply such tyres so would not comment. The other would have fitted them on the basis that it was my choice but did suggest there could be handling imbalance (unfortunately he only fitted tyres supplied by himself!).
FWIW (that'll be £160!
) I have bit the bullet and ordered another pair for the front as I've now got myself in a bit of a catch-22 as regards what to do with the two new tyres I have and don't have time to fk-about. A matching set is the optimum after all.HellDiver said:
You'd be better off with 4 Quatracs. From experience, the hard compound of the Hi-Trac is truely rubbish in the winter. I mean, really bad.
Really? Its seemed ok so far on the colder/damper mornings (I know it hasn't got properly cold yet). Good to know I suppose.So does anyone know if its ok to mix summer/all-season?
John D. said:
HellDiver said:
You'd be better off with 4 Quatracs. From experience, the hard compound of the Hi-Trac is truely rubbish in the winter. I mean, really bad.
Really? Its seemed ok so far on the colder/damper mornings (I know it hasn't got properly cold yet). Good to know I suppose.Rolling on Dunlop winters this year myself.
5 USA said:
The clever engineers who designed your car's braking system almost certainly indended there should be identical tyres all round. That's what I would fit.
Perhaps so but in the real world we all know many cars have a mix of tyres? fk me, this car has even got ABS!!Not really the point of the thread.
The Quatrac 3 is surprisingly capable in the snow, much more so than a summer tyre so I would suggest your car will become a liability if you try and use it in snowy / icey conditions.
Here's a graph showing approx available grip between summer, all season and winter tyres which uses the quatrac 3 as reference, as you can see they're not full off a full winter performance.
Here's a graph showing approx available grip between summer, all season and winter tyres which uses the quatrac 3 as reference, as you can see they're not full off a full winter performance.
5 USA said:
John D. said:
Perhaps so but in the real world we all know many cars have a mix of tyres?
Few halfwits would be daft enough to fit a mix of tractor tyres and slicks ..... or winter and summer tyres.Jon - thanks for your input.
When I was going to buy 2 winter tyres for the A6 last year (for the front as that does all the accelerating, steering and most of the braking) Camskill strongly advised against it.
I bought 4 but I'm sure it would have been fine.
I was chatting to my MOT guy and he runs Winters on the front of his (FrontWD) car in winter then transfers them to the rear (so they last longer) for summer.
No doubt not ideal and not for hooning but for commuting seems perfectly acceptable.
I bought 4 but I'm sure it would have been fine.
I was chatting to my MOT guy and he runs Winters on the front of his (FrontWD) car in winter then transfers them to the rear (so they last longer) for summer.
No doubt not ideal and not for hooning but for commuting seems perfectly acceptable.
ludicrous speed said:
Unless you're going to be really pushing it you are not likely to notice any real difference. Certainly wont be dangerous, unless you drive like a tt, in which any tyre combo would probably be dangerous.
Was my thinking t, in which any tyre combo would probably be dangerous.
I'm sure the tyre fitter would have been perfectly happy to fit a pair of Wangkang Ditchfinders
John D. said:
ludicrous speed said:
Unless you're going to be really pushing it you are not likely to notice any real difference. Certainly wont be dangerous, unless you drive like a tt, in which any tyre combo would probably be dangerous.
Was my thinking t, in which any tyre combo would probably be dangerous.I'm sure the tyre fitter would have been perfectly happy to fit a pair of Wangkang Ditchfinders
In the event of snow and ice, you will have at LEAST 50% MORE GRIP at the wrong end of the car, meaning if you're braking into a curve you will be in a dangerous situation.
I presume you're putting all season tyres on to use the car during the snowy periods? If so, I would strongly advise to do it properly.
Regarding your point about all season vs winter tyres, the banding the tyre manufactures use is VERY flexible meaning you will find all season tyres better than some winter tyres in the snow. The Quadtrac 3 is one of these.
jon- said:
The car will not be dangerous under NORMAL driving conditions.
In the event of snow and ice, you will have at LEAST 50% MORE GRIP at the wrong end of the car, meaning if you're braking into a curve you will be in a dangerous situation.
Maybe "braking into a curve" when there is snow and ice about isn't the greatest idea regardless of tyres.In the event of snow and ice, you will have at LEAST 50% MORE GRIP at the wrong end of the car, meaning if you're braking into a curve you will be in a dangerous situation.
For the 2 days of crap snow we might get, tyres really aren't worth worrying too much about.
ludicrous speed said:
jon- said:
The car will not be dangerous under NORMAL driving conditions.
In the event of snow and ice, you will have at LEAST 50% MORE GRIP at the wrong end of the car, meaning if you're braking into a curve you will be in a dangerous situation.
Maybe "braking into a curve" when there is snow and ice about isn't the greatest idea regardless of tyres.In the event of snow and ice, you will have at LEAST 50% MORE GRIP at the wrong end of the car, meaning if you're braking into a curve you will be in a dangerous situation.
For the 2 days of crap snow we might get, tyres really aren't worth worrying too much about.
Were you around last winter?
We had a bit more than two days. Besides considering the miles I do (580 a week) I think tyres best suited to cold and wet is a worthwhile investment. Plus I am curious to see how big a difference they can make.TBH I think I did misunderstand what these tyres are and how they were described. You live and learn.
Main thing I am worried about now is excessive wear in warmer conditions. Not a major issue as I commute via bike when the weather is better.
5 USA said:
The clever engineers who designed your car's braking system almost certainly indended there should be identical tyres all round. That's what I would fit.
That's a bit of a silly statement when all modern cars have a system designed to safely stop a car with entirely different level of friction at each tyre. (It's called ABS). The clever engineers almost certainly designed the braking system to cope safely in a worse-case scenario, which the OP is still pretty far from.
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