Soooo last year! Design student with a question...
Discussion
That's a good question, and I think what you say is true for the average Joe on the street ... but it is the case with everything now, new iPod out every 6 months or something, etc.
For me personally though I don't care about new refreshes every X years, if I like the look of a car then I like it.
I still think that plenty of oldish (from 90s) cars look modern for instance ... but then again I'm an engineering student.
What has happened is that marketing has taken over and dictates when new things need to be built. It is easier to sell a new (different looking) thing than it is to sell something that has been around for a while, the only way to sell something that has been around for a long time is to ensure that it is still the best on the market and that you are attracting new people (and new markets).
For me personally though I don't care about new refreshes every X years, if I like the look of a car then I like it.
I still think that plenty of oldish (from 90s) cars look modern for instance ... but then again I'm an engineering student.
What has happened is that marketing has taken over and dictates when new things need to be built. It is easier to sell a new (different looking) thing than it is to sell something that has been around for a while, the only way to sell something that has been around for a long time is to ensure that it is still the best on the market and that you are attracting new people (and new markets).
Gilbert24 said:
we are growing more and more interested in plumping up for 'the new model' we really don't need.
Nope. Your future employers might well be interested in selling the upgraded version of the car in two or three years time, and there may be a tiny minority who have to have the new thing, but I'd posit that there are 5% of those, maybe 15% who like the internals more than the shiny visible bits, and 80% of the car buying public who simply don't give a monkeys, as long as the damn things just work.Most designs can be tied down to one particular decade. Certainly some designs age very well but they will still look 'old' after an extended period. Landrover Defender anyone?
It's the same with most things, trying to design something futuristic is drawing on the trends of today and it will look dated very quickly. Take a look at concept cars from 20 years ago or futuristic renderings from 120 years ago (Steampunk anyone?) Looking back however... Maybe that's why retro has been popular, I don't think the BMW MINI has aged in 10 years and the Fiat 500 might do the same. The PT cruiser, terrible thing that it is, could be released today and still stand out. Laughably the Porsche 996 look dated now whilst keeping a shape that has been about for 40 years and still looks good today in 997 form
Of course being a design student you probably already agree with this? I'll be interested to see how you get on
It's the same with most things, trying to design something futuristic is drawing on the trends of today and it will look dated very quickly. Take a look at concept cars from 20 years ago or futuristic renderings from 120 years ago (Steampunk anyone?) Looking back however... Maybe that's why retro has been popular, I don't think the BMW MINI has aged in 10 years and the Fiat 500 might do the same. The PT cruiser, terrible thing that it is, could be released today and still stand out. Laughably the Porsche 996 look dated now whilst keeping a shape that has been about for 40 years and still looks good today in 997 form
Of course being a design student you probably already agree with this? I'll be interested to see how you get on
Edited by v8will on Sunday 14th November 19:02
Any design will 'age', but if it's a beautiful design then time will be kinder to it, and it will always be good looking. So just design something amazingly beautiful and you're on to a winner.
There aren't many current cars that will be able to manage this, Maserati Granturismo, and a few Alfa's should be ok in a few years. Maybe move to italy for some inspiration
There aren't many current cars that will be able to manage this, Maserati Granturismo, and a few Alfa's should be ok in a few years. Maybe move to italy for some inspiration
rypt said:
That's a good question, and I think what you say is true for the average Joe on the street ... but it is the case with everything now, new iPod out every 6 months or something, etc.
For me personally though I don't care about new refreshes every X years, if I like the look of a car then I like it.
I still think that plenty of oldish (from 90s) cars look modern for instance ... but then again I'm an engineering student.
What has happened is that marketing has taken over and dictates when new things need to be built. It is easier to sell a new (different looking) thing than it is to sell something that has been around for a while, the only way to sell something that has been around for a long time is to ensure that it is still the best on the market and that you are attracting new people (and new markets).
You mentioned the iPod, which might be a good parallel... Apple promote a new iPod or Mac every year, with a slightly tighter radius on that edge, a new screen ratio, and suddenly everyone with the current model says 'I need it, mine looks so old!'For me personally though I don't care about new refreshes every X years, if I like the look of a car then I like it.
I still think that plenty of oldish (from 90s) cars look modern for instance ... but then again I'm an engineering student.
What has happened is that marketing has taken over and dictates when new things need to be built. It is easier to sell a new (different looking) thing than it is to sell something that has been around for a while, the only way to sell something that has been around for a long time is to ensure that it is still the best on the market and that you are attracting new people (and new markets).
Is this something you think car companies' marketing men are trying to push?
The problem with most car design is it is not the vehicle the designer designed - it's a vaguely related bloated, pulled and tweaked version encompassing all the legislative requirements.
In my view, certain designs are timeless and can only be dated by the way they emply, for example, chrome bumpers and the like. I think cars are more "fashion items" then they used to be.
I think in the past 10 years, the only car which strikes me time and time again as being a great design is the Alfa 159.
Certain things come around again. There was a time when the Lotus Esprit looked quite horrifically outdated but now it looks fabulous.
I do think there is atendency for designs to become tired because everyone seems to coverge on a "look" which people eventually tire of.
In my view, certain designs are timeless and can only be dated by the way they emply, for example, chrome bumpers and the like. I think cars are more "fashion items" then they used to be.
I think in the past 10 years, the only car which strikes me time and time again as being a great design is the Alfa 159.
Certain things come around again. There was a time when the Lotus Esprit looked quite horrifically outdated but now it looks fabulous.
I do think there is atendency for designs to become tired because everyone seems to coverge on a "look" which people eventually tire of.
Gilbert24 said:
You mentioned the iPod, which might be a good parallel... Apple promote a new iPod or Mac every year, with a slightly tighter radius on that edge, a new screen ratio, and suddenly everyone with the current model says 'I need it, mine looks so old!'
Is this something you think car companies' marketing men are trying to push?
I do, and while I can understand the business/marketing decision behind it ... I would far prefer that new models and refreshes were released when there was actually something new and improved ... and not just for the sake of it.Is this something you think car companies' marketing men are trying to push?
However, the problem with cars is that you cannot really gradually upgrade then, releasing slight improvements year on year (or well you can if you design a very good base to begin with), since so many things are now cast or moulded you have to make new moulds for everything, which means you might as well change everything ...
I would much prefer if cars had a slow year by year evolution, but this would make fixing them a pain as well.
deevlash said:
rypt said:
deevlash said:
the ford new edge cars havent aged at all, the puma especially could be released tomorrow and still look fresh.
That's because the Puma was butt-ugly when it was first released, and will still look butt-ugly if it was released tomorrow.Edited by rypt on Sunday 14th November 20:09
Gilbert24 said:
Hi everyone, I'm new here and this is my first thread. I'm a final year student of Automotive Design at Coventry Uni, doing a project about how cars age, particularly styling-wise. The aim is to design a car that does not age (i know I know, I'll post how that goes later on).
(Here's my portfolio in case you fancy a look, click on my name, http://cardesignnews.com/site/designers/portfolios... )
Cars age faster they used to, or at least that what I've found out so far. The styling grows old faster, new models and facelifts are coming around more and more often, and we are growing more and more interested in plumping up for 'the new model' we really don't need.
Has the emphasis placed on a car being fashionable increased to the point where designers have to continually refresh their vehicles, and is 'new-ness' of ever-increasing importance?
Listen sunshine, there is only one absolute truth.(Here's my portfolio in case you fancy a look, click on my name, http://cardesignnews.com/site/designers/portfolios... )
Cars age faster they used to, or at least that what I've found out so far. The styling grows old faster, new models and facelifts are coming around more and more often, and we are growing more and more interested in plumping up for 'the new model' we really don't need.
Has the emphasis placed on a car being fashionable increased to the point where designers have to continually refresh their vehicles, and is 'new-ness' of ever-increasing importance?
Form should follow function.
The rest is marketing bulls
t.I await your response.
WhoseGeneration said:
Form should follow function.
The rest is marketing bullst.
There was a time when designers of cars and buildings were also engineers, and thus they designed functional things from an engineering point of view.The rest is marketing bulls
t.Now external design is done by arty people often (more so for all these concepts we see that have no thought given to function)
WhoseGeneration said:
Listen sunshine, there is only one absolute truth.
Form should follow function.
The rest is marketing bullsh*t.
I await your response.
If it's all B.S. then why do so many people buy into it? Maybe form used to just follow function but now changes in fashions, trends and technology all matter to a lot of car buyers. And while marketing plays a big role there's a lot more to it- you can never market that stuff if nobody is interested in in the first place. Form should follow function.
The rest is marketing bullsh*t.
I await your response.
Gilbert24 said:
you can never market that stuff if nobody is interested in in the first place.
Piffle. There's an advert on at the moment for automatic soap dispensers for home use. It preys on the fact that germy hands touch the dispenser, and completely fails to mention the fact that when you touch the soapy thing - you're about to wash your fricking hands, you buffoon.Same with Bangle's flamestyling, and other black polo necked w$nkery.
randlemarcus said:
Gilbert24 said:
you can never market that stuff if nobody is interested in in the first place.
Piffle. There's an advert on at the moment for automatic soap dispensers for home use. It preys on the fact that germy hands touch the dispenser, and completely fails to mention the fact that when you touch the soapy thing - you're about to wash your fricking hands, you buffoon.Same with Bangle's flamestyling, and other black polo necked w$nkery.
Hello,
I'm a second year at Coventry- also doing Auto design. The thing that i have noticed is that very futuristic and angular cars do not seem to age that badly. They are ussually way too unusual to put onto market, but if you consider the Ford GT90 from the mid 90's it still looks far too modern, even today. The current Civic- even though it is getting on for nearly 5 years old, and it still looks very individual. I do not think that you can stop a car from getting old- this is never going to happen. But what you can determine is how it ages. Take the Citroen DS, the 5th generation Honda Prelude, and the original Honda Insight and the Citroen Bijou. Things that make a car age badly is doing the norm. Something that all cars have, make it age. Pop up headlights were all the rage in the 70's and 80's, this makes us thing that it is old and from an age of hippies and psychadelic(sp?) rock.
At the other end of the spectrum you can get brand new cars that are made to look old. This also makes them a timeless design. The Nissan Figaro, Ford GT and the Weissmann.
It is an interesting question though, and one that all Auto designers think they have the solution to. Unfortunately, if someone has a good idea in the industry, everybody copies it, making it no longer timeless. This can be avoided by stuffing the car with bad bad ideas amongst the good ideas like Citroen did
-single spoke steering wheel
-unconventional controls
-hydrogas suspension
-complecated engine designs
-lights that followed the road
-front wheel drive
-twin helical gears
-excellent suspension design
-mass production techniques
and so on and so forth.
But, as we all know, a bad idea does not get you a good mark and will not get you a job at then end of your degree.
I might try and hunt you down at some point to see what you are up to. PM me.
Niall
I'm a second year at Coventry- also doing Auto design. The thing that i have noticed is that very futuristic and angular cars do not seem to age that badly. They are ussually way too unusual to put onto market, but if you consider the Ford GT90 from the mid 90's it still looks far too modern, even today. The current Civic- even though it is getting on for nearly 5 years old, and it still looks very individual. I do not think that you can stop a car from getting old- this is never going to happen. But what you can determine is how it ages. Take the Citroen DS, the 5th generation Honda Prelude, and the original Honda Insight and the Citroen Bijou. Things that make a car age badly is doing the norm. Something that all cars have, make it age. Pop up headlights were all the rage in the 70's and 80's, this makes us thing that it is old and from an age of hippies and psychadelic(sp?) rock.
At the other end of the spectrum you can get brand new cars that are made to look old. This also makes them a timeless design. The Nissan Figaro, Ford GT and the Weissmann.
It is an interesting question though, and one that all Auto designers think they have the solution to. Unfortunately, if someone has a good idea in the industry, everybody copies it, making it no longer timeless. This can be avoided by stuffing the car with bad bad ideas amongst the good ideas like Citroen did
-single spoke steering wheel
-unconventional controls
-hydrogas suspension
-complecated engine designs
-lights that followed the road
-front wheel drive
-twin helical gears
-excellent suspension design
-mass production techniques
and so on and so forth.
But, as we all know, a bad idea does not get you a good mark and will not get you a job at then end of your degree.
I might try and hunt you down at some point to see what you are up to. PM me.
Niall
Edited by slomax on Sunday 14th November 22:49
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