Roundabout insurance woes
Discussion
Hi, I was involved in an incident over the weekend and wonder what my options are. I was passing a car (on the right) on a dual carriageway roundabout (junction with a motorway). I was going straight on at the roundabout and had passed the left exit as I started to pass the car. I was indicating left at this point, as I was to take the next exit. The car appeared to start to drift right (no indicating) so I sounded the horn to let him know I was there. He moved back left and I continued on the trajectory to leave the roundabout in the righthand lane of the dual carriageway. Still not indicating the car then swerved into me as we were along side (front wing to front wing contact). He still was not indicating nor did he sound his horn. [Note: There were no markings on the roundabout or lane direction markings on the entry to the roundabout.]
In my mind this is his fault. However there were no witnesses and he'll no doubt say it was my fault. Hopefully he will be on a week footing having not indicated and having been on the left side. I was driving the wife's aged hatchback on our way to dinner with the inlaws (like I didn't need any more sympathy) when it happened and it's only superficial damage so I wouldn't bother claiming if it were just down to me. The other drive lives in Switzerland (expat from UK) and was in a new hirecar.
I am worried that I'll loose my no claims if it is decided 50:50 (since no witnesses and his word vs mine). Worse still they may conclude it was my fault (I hope this is unlikely). I wouldn't put in a claim due to the age of the care and the light damage, but presumably have to tell my insurer. As it was at the weekend and I was away from home all weekend I haven't yet called them but plan to today.
Any help, advice or personal experiences much apprecaited.
In my mind this is his fault. However there were no witnesses and he'll no doubt say it was my fault. Hopefully he will be on a week footing having not indicated and having been on the left side. I was driving the wife's aged hatchback on our way to dinner with the inlaws (like I didn't need any more sympathy) when it happened and it's only superficial damage so I wouldn't bother claiming if it were just down to me. The other drive lives in Switzerland (expat from UK) and was in a new hirecar.
I am worried that I'll loose my no claims if it is decided 50:50 (since no witnesses and his word vs mine). Worse still they may conclude it was my fault (I hope this is unlikely). I wouldn't put in a claim due to the age of the care and the light damage, but presumably have to tell my insurer. As it was at the weekend and I was away from home all weekend I haven't yet called them but plan to today.
Any help, advice or personal experiences much apprecaited.
Seems to me like you put yourself in someones blind spot and paid the price.
Obviously he should observe all that's around him but you know people don't, so why let him drive into you - just hang back a bit and be defensive then you can be sure whats he's doing.
I'd argue damn hard that you were at least level with him and he drove into you as you were passing.
Having said that I'd reckon a 50/50 due to insurance apathy.
What was his explanation?
Obviously he should observe all that's around him but you know people don't, so why let him drive into you - just hang back a bit and be defensive then you can be sure whats he's doing.
I'd argue damn hard that you were at least level with him and he drove into you as you were passing.
Having said that I'd reckon a 50/50 due to insurance apathy.
What was his explanation?
I'd call that a 50:50 too from your description, lack of observation and judgement on both your parts by my reckoning. Sorry if this offends or anything just giving my honest opinion.
ETA: While I say 50:50, I mean its more his fault than yours but I'd say insurance will see it as 50:50, sorry.
ETA: While I say 50:50, I mean its more his fault than yours but I'd say insurance will see it as 50:50, sorry.
Edited by patmahe on Monday 15th November 11:52
You had time to sound your horn and it looked as though he'd noticed
The other option would have been to go around again but you'd probably assumed that he was going off too having moved away
Also he shouldnt have been in the left lane for turning right and if he was going to should have made sure he wasnt going to drive into the side of you
The other option would have been to go around again but you'd probably assumed that he was going off too having moved away
Also he shouldnt have been in the left lane for turning right and if he was going to should have made sure he wasnt going to drive into the side of you
Look right and give way when entering a roundabout, and look left and give way when exiting it.
As you were on the inside track of the roundabout, you have the option to do another lap if your exit is blocked, the person in the outside lane should not be forced into exiting the roundabout by your actions.
As you were on the inside track of the roundabout, you have the option to do another lap if your exit is blocked, the person in the outside lane should not be forced into exiting the roundabout by your actions.
Edited by Mr Gear on Monday 15th November 11:58
Sounds to me like you were in the right OP nothing wrong in my mind with what you did, however insurance will no doubt go 50:50.
Even if you were in his blind spot, you'd already sounded your horn to indicate your presence to which the other driver acknowledged by addressing his position on the road. Even so, the fact that the damage to your car is to the front, it would indicate to me that you weren't in his blind spot.
The only criticism I'd make would be that maybe you weren't being defensive enough particularly as the other party had already shown signs of being incapable of operating a motor vehicle.
Even if you were in his blind spot, you'd already sounded your horn to indicate your presence to which the other driver acknowledged by addressing his position on the road. Even so, the fact that the damage to your car is to the front, it would indicate to me that you weren't in his blind spot.
The only criticism I'd make would be that maybe you weren't being defensive enough particularly as the other party had already shown signs of being incapable of operating a motor vehicle.
To anyone that thinks the OP was "in the right" can you please answer this:
Apart from using an indicator, what would you have wanted the other car to do? Stop? Take a wrong exit off the roundabout? Nope. The onus is on the OP to avoid ramming the car on the outside of the roundabout, which could easily have been achieved by doing another lap if his exit was blocked.
If there were markings on the roundabout that showed the outside lane clearly as an exit only, then the story might have been different. But in this case, the OP is at least 90% at fault, and he should consider it a huge victory if it goes 50:50.
Apart from using an indicator, what would you have wanted the other car to do? Stop? Take a wrong exit off the roundabout? Nope. The onus is on the OP to avoid ramming the car on the outside of the roundabout, which could easily have been achieved by doing another lap if his exit was blocked.
If there were markings on the roundabout that showed the outside lane clearly as an exit only, then the story might have been different. But in this case, the OP is at least 90% at fault, and he should consider it a huge victory if it goes 50:50.
Roundabouts are always a problem.... the other vehicles insurer will argue that their driver was in the right... and yours will argue the same...I guess 50/50 as usual.... be careful on roundabouts, especially right hand lanes and going straight on.... always the common collision.. I guess the other driver assumed...rightly or wrongly ...you were changing direction to turn right....
Mr Gear said:
To anyone that thinks the OP was "in the right" can you please answer this:
Apart from using an indicator, what would you have wanted the other car to do? Stop? Take a wrong exit off the roundabout? Nope. The onus is on the OP to avoid ramming the car on the outside of the roundabout, which could easily have been achieved by doing another lap if his exit was blocked.
If there were markings on the roundabout that showed the outside lane clearly as an exit only, then the story might have been different. But in this case, the OP is at least 90% at fault, and he should consider it a huge victory if it goes 50:50.
Two lane entry, two lane wide roundabout and two lane exit. the OP did nothing wrong except not realising the other party didn't know what he was doing. If a car enters a roundabout in the left hand lane without indicating and doesn't take the first exit, then it's reasonable to assume, (ok,ok I know!!), that they're going to take the second exit. If he'd been intending taking an exit further round the roundabout he should have taken the right hand lane on entry and been indicating right. That would've given the OP at least half a chance of figuring out WTF he was doing and then maybe have conceded.Apart from using an indicator, what would you have wanted the other car to do? Stop? Take a wrong exit off the roundabout? Nope. The onus is on the OP to avoid ramming the car on the outside of the roundabout, which could easily have been achieved by doing another lap if his exit was blocked.
If there were markings on the roundabout that showed the outside lane clearly as an exit only, then the story might have been different. But in this case, the OP is at least 90% at fault, and he should consider it a huge victory if it goes 50:50.
The fact that the other party continued on the wrong side of the road even knowing that the OP was there puts him well into the wrong. Again, the OP did nothing wrong, maintained his course and indicated his intentions. The other party obviously had his head up his arse.
Just to add a foot note to this discussion. A while ago I found myself in the left hand lane of a queue approaching a roundabout. Now because the queue was nose to tail, the left turn only arrow on the road was obscures to me. I intended to go straight across. I nearly broadsided a chap who was in the correct lane as he made his exit. Understandably he was less than pleased by our nearly coming together and gesticulated his displeasure. I was also unhappy because I thought he had cut across me. I was only after I traveled the same road some time later I realised what had happened.
Never assume the other driver know exactly what they should be doing on a roundabout.
Never assume the other driver know exactly what they should be doing on a roundabout.
A very similar thing happened to me a few years ago though the three lanes each had arrows. The left (his lane) pointed straight on, the middle (my lane) pointed straight on (two lane exit) or right and the right lane had an arrow pointing right. Again no indicating on his part but he turned in on me as I was ahead of him and indicating left (his front indicator made contact with my rear door).
Insurers decision was 50/50 as no independent witnesses.
I've learned my lesson now and always hang back as I see so many numptys ambling all the way round the outside lane to the 3rd or 4th exit in a daze with no indicators. Obviously they don't bother indicating left once they get to their exit either.
Insurers decision was 50/50 as no independent witnesses.
I've learned my lesson now and always hang back as I see so many numptys ambling all the way round the outside lane to the 3rd or 4th exit in a daze with no indicators. Obviously they don't bother indicating left once they get to their exit either.
Drive defencively and 90% of these accidents will be a thing of the past.
Every roundabout I use is an accident waiting to happen because of little or no lane discipline. Most drivers are completly oblivious to correct driving on a roundabout so if you're in the right lane ensure you giveway to the pillock in the left lane as he will hit you.
Every roundabout I use is an accident waiting to happen because of little or no lane discipline. Most drivers are completly oblivious to correct driving on a roundabout so if you're in the right lane ensure you giveway to the pillock in the left lane as he will hit you.
Thanks to everyone who has posted. I have tried to include as full a description as possible. Sounds like people are a bit split on this one.
It was front wing to front wing contact so I wasn't in his blind spot, he must have paniced that he wasn't going to be able to continue round as it was definitely a swerve rather than a continued sweep. If it had been a sweep I could have stayed on to go round a rotation.
When he started 'drifting' across I was just about to start passing so if he had continued to come across on my honk (ideally indicating too) or indicated right I would have understood his intension and pulled back.
I do drive defensively but this one caught me out.
It was front wing to front wing contact so I wasn't in his blind spot, he must have paniced that he wasn't going to be able to continue round as it was definitely a swerve rather than a continued sweep. If it had been a sweep I could have stayed on to go round a rotation.
When he started 'drifting' across I was just about to start passing so if he had continued to come across on my honk (ideally indicating too) or indicated right I would have understood his intension and pulled back.
I do drive defensively but this one caught me out.
Edited by roundNabout on Monday 15th November 13:59
Meant to ask, if it is decided 50:50 does each party claim their own costs from their own insurer, in which case I wouldn't make a claim (old car, minor damage)? Or will the total cost of the accident (mostly cost of the hirecar repair) be split equally across the two insurers?
Is there any hope for my no claims or is it a goner for good?
Is there any hope for my no claims or is it a goner for good?
sounds to me like some arse joined a roundabout in the left lane and then drove into someone while trying to go past 12 oclock and turn right. It's entirely his fault and those defending him are probably the same kind of arses who have no idea how to use the correct lane on a roundabout.
fatjon said:
sounds to me like some arse joined a roundabout in the left lane and then drove into someone while trying to go past 12 oclock and turn right. It's entirely his fault and those defending him are probably the same kind of arses who have no idea how to use the correct lane on a roundabout.
So if you saw a vehicle on your left when you planned to exit a roundabout you'd drive into it too would you? Interesting theory.I'll bet it goes 50-50, I was forced off the road in a similar situation the dodery old fool drove off not realising they had forced me to avoid and go up onto the central reservation between the exit and the entrance. With no witnesses you're stuffed for getting much else unless he comes clean and even then his insurer may push for 50-50.
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