Snow socks, not quite the magic bullet....

[bennyboydurham]

Righty ho, so the set of snow socks I ordered arrived at work today so rushed home to see if they'd free my E65 which has been stranded at home for nearly two weeks. From the video on the companies' website, it looks like a case of pulling the sock on, driving forward a bit to allow you to pull on the bottom of the sock and you're away. The instructions did say that you should avoid wheelspin and put some weight in the boot of a rear wheel drive car to get up hills. It also said that rear drive cars with low clearance might be tricky to get hands around. Hmmm. They were right.

My neighbour and I spent half an hour trying to pull the socks over the the 19s that my car rides on. Impossible, absolutely no chance. There's simply not enough room around the wheel to get your hands around the back to pull the sock on. Whenever you let go of one side to pull on the other, it pings off. After plenty of this, let's jack it up says I, easier said than done with an (albeit fairly decent, thanks BMW) OEM jack and the car resting on snow. Eventually after much puffing and panting (and having it slip off the jack on one side and dent the sill, arggh!) we got it jacked up on both sides and the socks on. Given the tight clearance we'd probably have lost our hands had the the car fallen off the jack whilst we had our hands in the arches but with that in mind we made it very quick!

Jack stowed, I left the DTC (traction in BMW-speak) on as per the instructions and tried a bit of gas. Nothing. Engine revving, wheels not turning one bit. I turned it off. Monster wheelspin, neighbour coated in Pirelli P Zero-heated slush and a rather hot smell. I went to inspect the damage and saw that the sock had lunched itself off the wheel and was sitting on the drive about four feet away, smoking gently. Total distance moved - 0 inches.

The sock is ruined. Melted, holed and useless now as the exposed kevlar webbing is strong enough to damage the tyre. Perhaps I expected miracles but I'm disappointed that the socks couldn't get me out of few inches of snow, on the flat. I'm not saying that they don't work as there's enough evidence on this board and elsewhere to suggest that they do, and very well in some cases. However the notion of attempting to put them onto a car with big wheels and tight arch clearance, singlehandedly, in a country lane, in the dark, in the snow (which is probably exactly when you would need them) would be to me somewhat foolish if not downright suicidal.

I shall be seeking a refund, and next year I'm going to ignore my wife and buy a £600 Jeep Cherokee and leave the 7 in the garage!

Edited by bennyboydurham on Tuesday 7th December 20:01

[tony wright]

I used a pair a couple of years back on Mitsubishi Carisma after coming to a standstill on a very steep snowy incline in Austria. Took no more than a couple of minutes to put on and easily got me to the top of the hill Obviously there were no clearance issues and they did not seem that tight also would of helped with the car being front wheel drive.

I have just bought a new car fitted with All Season tyres and even though it is a big rear wheel drive car (Merc E240)the transition on snow and ice is incredible. I bought the car because it was cheaper than buying winter tyres for my new Jag XJ

[jon-]

bennyboydurham said:

I shall be seeking a refund, and next year I'm going to ignore my wife and buy a £600 Jeep Cherokee and leave the 7 in the garage!

You know BMW have a winter tyre spec for the E65... *runs for cover*

I half expect the snow socks people to point the finger at you for incorrect installation. Please update this thread once you hear back from them.

[Marcellus]

I'd agree with the OP... the number of times I would see cars stranded with melted socks during the season was unbelievable.... like chains I reckon that to get them on you need to practice in the warm and dry so that the 1st time you try to use them in anger you know what you're doing.

[bennyboydurham]

jon- said:

bennyboydurham said:

I shall be seeking a refund, and next year I'm going to ignore my wife and buy a £600 Jeep Cherokee and leave the 7 in the garage!

You know BMW have a winter tyre spec for the E65... *runs for cover*

I half expect the snow socks people to point the finger at you for incorrect installation. Please update this thread once you hear back from them.

Ah yes Jon I know they do, but the winter tyres of this size are Yokahamas at about £300 a corner. Madness for a few weeks a year. Yes they could argue that I fitted them incorrectly and I'll accept that, but I don't see that jacking it up and putting them snugly around the whole wheel makes a big difference from the driving forward a bit method. I'll keep you posted.

[ShadownINja]

bennyboydurham said:

Engine revving, wheels not turning one bit. I turned it off. Monster wheelspin

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

[bennyboydurham]

ShadownINja said:

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all. Turning off TC altogether gives you power back but being an auto you can't moderate it very well and neither can you start it off in second in steptronic mode as from a standing start the computer just overrules you and puts you back in first. Too bloody clever for their own good, these cars.

[ShadownINja]

bennyboydurham said:

ShadownINja said:

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all. Turning off TC altogether gives you power back but being an auto you can't moderate it very well and neither can you start it off in second in steptronic mode as from a standing start the computer just overrules you and puts you back in first. Too bloody clever for their own good, these cars.

Crap. That is annoying. Is it possible that it sensed the wheels were loose in the socks so refused to let them turn?

[bennyboydurham]

ShadownINja said:

Crap. That is annoying. Is it possible that it sensed the wheels were loose in the socks so refused to let them turn?

Yes that's entirely possible, I suppose. I'm not an expert on traction control but I'm sure someone brighter than I will be along soonish to explain it all.

Edited by bennyboydurham on Tuesday 7th December 21:19

[sn00per]

bennyboydurham said:

ShadownINja said:

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all. Turning off TC altogether gives you power back but being an auto you can't moderate it very well and neither can you start it off in second in steptronic mode as from a standing start the computer just overrules you and puts you back in first. Too bloody clever for their own good, these cars.

'Being an auto you can't moderate it very well'

??? Take this to mean you took TC off and floored it max revs, now wondering why the snow-sock is dead?

[Mostro]

sn00per said:

bennyboydurham said:

ShadownINja said:

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all. Turning off TC altogether gives you power back but being an auto you can't moderate it very well and neither can you start it off in second in steptronic mode as from a standing start the computer just overrules you and puts you back in first. Too bloody clever for their own good, these cars.

'Being an auto you can't moderate it very well'

??? Take this to mean you took TC off and floored it max revs, now wondering why the snow-sock is dead?

Thinking the same - my socks never get remotely warm even by the end of a journey. Freezing they are.

[Magic919]

bennyboydurham said:

ShadownINja said:

Just trying to understand. Why did the wheels not turn when the engine was revved? And why was there a lot of wheelspin when the TC was switched off?

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all.

How does achieve this? Seems to suggest there must have been some wheelspin for the system to activate. Maybe the wheel turned within the snow sock?

[bramley]

AFAIK BMW autos pull away in second anyway unless you choose manual or clog it.

Sorry to hear it was a nightmare though.

[Tallbut Buxomly]

Hate to say this but i dont think autosock should refund you. I admit their instructions are wrong on how to fit them though.
I found that the best way to fit them was in reverse. Hook them just in front or behind the wheel then very lightly lift off clutch or brake in reverse. wheel spins a LOT slower.

Get out finish fitting them

Having not driven a 5 in snow i have no idea what there tc is like but cant see the gearbox and tc being that much of an issue

If its standard 5 series clearance then you should be able to fit them.

[garethj]

bennyboydurham said:

My neighbour and I spent half an hour trying to pull the socks over the the 19s that my car rides on. Impossible, absolutely no chance. There's simply not enough room around the wheel to get your hands around the back to pull the sock on.

As the fitting instructions are on their website and youtube videos, and you know your car has big wheels (because you've priced winter tyres for it) I'm struggling to see how this is the fault of the snowsock manufacturer?

Giving it lots of revs is bad in snow, no matter if you've got winter tyres, socks or chains on. Your neighbour should think himself lucky he didn't get hit by a flying snow chain...

I'd have thought traction control off, knock it into drive and let it creep at idle speed would be the place to start. From there, you really want to imagine you're in a Daimler 420 hearse with barely a whisper of throttle.

But it's easy to comment from here where it's warm, dry and having driven to work every day in a car that doesn't get stuck

[Fuchs]

You can afford to buy and run two BMW's but baulk at buying the correct tyres for the season?

Madness. <shakes head>

[y2blade]

we used them on both vehicles for most of last week with no problems at all
and on my car last February too

Edited by y2blade on Wednesday 8th December 10:07

[vetrof]

Sorry to hear about this. I love my winter tyres, they're on from October to March (Living in Czech Republic).

Forget 1200 quid,German Ebay is your friend.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Komplettsatz-Winterreifen-E65-7...

http://shop.ebay.de/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m...

[anonymous-user]

bennyboydurham said:

The TC in the 7 effectively kills drive dead when you spin the wheels, so you have the amusing sight of the speedo reading about 55mph whilst the actual wheels aren't moving at all.

Unfortunately you have pretty much just admitted to destroying the snow socks yourself there, lets hope they don't read PH!


(The "speedo" is driven from the ABS module, which senses wheel speed from 4 sensors (1 per wheel). Normally, these 4 signals are averaged and a "vehicle speed" value calculated that is then transmitted via CAN to the instrument display. However the system is pretty smart, and is able to detect unusual conditions, (and failed sensors) and revert to using only a pair or even just 1 wheel speed sensor value. In the case of your rwd bmw, it will have spotted that just the rear wheels were turning (as they spun round inside the socks) and hence the "speedo reading 55mph" was actually the true speed of your rear wheels........

(if the traction control had completely prevented any wheel turning, the speedo would not read 55mph, and as an aside, the traction control is deliberately calibrated NOT to ever demand a true zero value for rear wheel speed, precisely to avoid issues with the TCS completely preventing the wheels turning when the driver was asking for some positive drive torque)

[Zod]

You need Spikesspiders instead. I've had a set for years and they've served me on an M3, a CSL and my M5 (I had to buy links to extend them for the M5 wheels). Attach the central plate (takes five minutes per side)and leave it for the duration of the snow, then just fit the chains using a bayonet fitting every time you need them (takes two minutes per side).

The con is the expense.