Best car for learning to drive - "properly"
Discussion
Hi,
I have been in a dilemma for months over what car to get next. I note there are many threads dedicated to this, from looking at them I think this may be a little different.
I have a MkV Golf GTi at the moment which is great, but it's very easy to drive fast and also doesn't feel that quick to me anymore.
I could take the standard approach and finance something like an E46 M3, E39 M5, Boxster S, or really stretch myself to maybe an E60 M5 or 911 C4S. The usual suspects I guess.
However, while I have test driven all of these and obviously "stretched their legs" as part of that process, it has dawned on me that moving from a 200bhp front wheel drive car to anything up to a 500bhp rear wheel drive car is a massive step up and I would have little hope of ever getting to grips with/exploiting any of these cars' true potentials.
I would not be willing to try to "learn to drive" these cars properly on the public road because there is clearly no margin for error. Equally I could not take them to a race track to learn because I'd be so crippled by monthly finance re-payments that a track day would break the bank, plus if I've blown north of £25k on a car I'm likely to be a little "precious" about it (just try eating in my Golf!).
So, I've decided an alternative approach is needed and this is where your suggestions/past experiences are welcome. Rather than blowing £15-£25k I'm thinking of spending less than £5k. That way there are no monthly finance costs to worry about so I'd have spare cash for track days and then when things do go pop my bank won't be broken. This has the added advantage of being ale to save cash away for a larger deposit for something even tastier once I've finished "learning".
King of the hill at the moment from my perspective is an E36 M3, plenty of nice looking examples around for the money I am talking about. However, still 321bhp to contend with and no traction control. This phases me not because the rawer the car the more I will learn, (that's the theory anyway).
However, other alternatives are:
Mazda MX5 (I understand this is meant to be a perfect introduction to rear wheel drive)
Nissan 200SX (a perfect drifter if I'm right)
BMW E36 318iS (VERY cheap to buy and - I think - comes with an LSD).
My aim is to learn to drive and control a rear wheel drive car to the fullest extent possible, if an MX5 will teach me more than an M3 then it wins. I'm looking for tactility, controllability, adjustability (mid-corner) and driftability.
Your suggestions are welcomed, particularly if you've taken a similar route.
(If on the other hand this has been done to death on another thread and I'm being blind, please point me in the right direction!)
Cheers,
Adrian.
I have been in a dilemma for months over what car to get next. I note there are many threads dedicated to this, from looking at them I think this may be a little different.
I have a MkV Golf GTi at the moment which is great, but it's very easy to drive fast and also doesn't feel that quick to me anymore.
I could take the standard approach and finance something like an E46 M3, E39 M5, Boxster S, or really stretch myself to maybe an E60 M5 or 911 C4S. The usual suspects I guess.
However, while I have test driven all of these and obviously "stretched their legs" as part of that process, it has dawned on me that moving from a 200bhp front wheel drive car to anything up to a 500bhp rear wheel drive car is a massive step up and I would have little hope of ever getting to grips with/exploiting any of these cars' true potentials.
I would not be willing to try to "learn to drive" these cars properly on the public road because there is clearly no margin for error. Equally I could not take them to a race track to learn because I'd be so crippled by monthly finance re-payments that a track day would break the bank, plus if I've blown north of £25k on a car I'm likely to be a little "precious" about it (just try eating in my Golf!).
So, I've decided an alternative approach is needed and this is where your suggestions/past experiences are welcome. Rather than blowing £15-£25k I'm thinking of spending less than £5k. That way there are no monthly finance costs to worry about so I'd have spare cash for track days and then when things do go pop my bank won't be broken. This has the added advantage of being ale to save cash away for a larger deposit for something even tastier once I've finished "learning".
King of the hill at the moment from my perspective is an E36 M3, plenty of nice looking examples around for the money I am talking about. However, still 321bhp to contend with and no traction control. This phases me not because the rawer the car the more I will learn, (that's the theory anyway).
However, other alternatives are:
Mazda MX5 (I understand this is meant to be a perfect introduction to rear wheel drive)
Nissan 200SX (a perfect drifter if I'm right)
BMW E36 318iS (VERY cheap to buy and - I think - comes with an LSD).
My aim is to learn to drive and control a rear wheel drive car to the fullest extent possible, if an MX5 will teach me more than an M3 then it wins. I'm looking for tactility, controllability, adjustability (mid-corner) and driftability.
Your suggestions are welcomed, particularly if you've taken a similar route.
(If on the other hand this has been done to death on another thread and I'm being blind, please point me in the right direction!)
Cheers,
Adrian.
I was in similar position to you, was used to a powerfulish front wheel drive hot hatch (Cupra R if you're interested) but wanted to get a proper rear wheel drive car for my next step up the car ladder. In the end I went for a 350Z and haven't regretted it for a second. It's great car to learn about rear wheel drive characteristics, as it can be pretty tail happy but easy to control on the limit. Early ones can be picked up for well under £10k now.
Edited by CaptainSensib1e on Wednesday 8th December 17:02
It's a very interesting question 
I'm inclined to suggest that one can learn to drive properly in any car, it's just that some cars punish mistakes and highlight errors more than others. I don't remember any big surprises when I switched from racing a Metro to a Caterham, and the on to a Formula Renault. All were huge jumps in performance, but I was essentially doing the same things in each car - it's still driving.
edited to add: obviously which end of the car is driven is a major difference, everything else being variations of the same thing. I still reckon that the basics of driving well can be learnt in any car though, if anything I think it's less confusing to learn in FWD, where power always means tending towards understeer, and backing off always means tending towards oversteer.
I'm inclined to suggest that one can learn to drive properly in any car, it's just that some cars punish mistakes and highlight errors more than others. I don't remember any big surprises when I switched from racing a Metro to a Caterham, and the on to a Formula Renault. All were huge jumps in performance, but I was essentially doing the same things in each car - it's still driving.edited to add: obviously which end of the car is driven is a major difference, everything else being variations of the same thing. I still reckon that the basics of driving well can be learnt in any car though, if anything I think it's less confusing to learn in FWD, where power always means tending towards understeer, and backing off always means tending towards oversteer.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 8th December 17:36
I had a few reasonably powerful FWDs before and wanted to do the same as you.
I've gone the MX5 route, though I haven't done any track days yet, the limits are easily and sometimes accidently explored (try taking a roundabout at -5c at normal speed).
As a bonus if you do go for an mx5, 5K is probably more than you'd need. 2-3K for a mk1 or mk2.
I've gone the MX5 route, though I haven't done any track days yet, the limits are easily and sometimes accidently explored (try taking a roundabout at -5c at normal speed).
As a bonus if you do go for an mx5, 5K is probably more than you'd need. 2-3K for a mk1 or mk2.
a bit over the £5k budget (not much), but a nice enough looking thing for the purposes described
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2283270.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2283270.htm
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th December 19:03
had/owned and/or driven extensively the 200sx, e36 m3 and mx5.
mx5, power way below limit of chssis so plenty of room for error. feedback is very direct, you'll be told exactly what the car is doing.
200sx, great fun for showing off but the potential for it to bite you when you're not in the mood is pretty high due to low end boost and light, stiff chassis. it's clownshoes on 4 wheels.
e36 m3 best compromise, the power delivery until 4k is actually very linear, but feedback from controls is a little more subtle than say the mx5. obviously it doesnt have traction control but tbh you'll have to ask it to step out.
all 3 are good fun tho, personally i'd go for the e36 m3. which i did.
mx5, power way below limit of chssis so plenty of room for error. feedback is very direct, you'll be told exactly what the car is doing.
200sx, great fun for showing off but the potential for it to bite you when you're not in the mood is pretty high due to low end boost and light, stiff chassis. it's clownshoes on 4 wheels.
e36 m3 best compromise, the power delivery until 4k is actually very linear, but feedback from controls is a little more subtle than say the mx5. obviously it doesnt have traction control but tbh you'll have to ask it to step out.
all 3 are good fun tho, personally i'd go for the e36 m3. which i did.
At the risk of sounding trite, the easiest way to drive any car better is to be a better driver.
Just imagine that someone told you they weren't very good at cooking because they didn't have the right set of knives - it's missing the point.
If you get some training, those skills will be transferable to anything you drive in the future. You'll enjoy your driving more too.
Just imagine that someone told you they weren't very good at cooking because they didn't have the right set of knives - it's missing the point.
If you get some training, those skills will be transferable to anything you drive in the future. You'll enjoy your driving more too.
king keen. 
You can get an MX5 sideways without much effort at all (much the same, I guess, as an M5 - my only experience behind the wheel was of the one from the early 90s, I forget the designation) and it's about learning to manage that so that you know what to expect and how to react when things get twitchy in the M5 (or similar).
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