RE: No predictability in 2014 F1

RE: No predictability in 2014 F1

Monday 4th November 2013

No predictability in 2014 F1

Complexity of new V6s will shake up F1 pack like nothing else, former engine guys tell PH



In the wake of another Red Bull demolition job, we'd say the 2014 Formula 1 season could be a LOT less predictable. This is following a chat we had with a couple of former F1 engine developers.

"It's going to be a big fight" says Christophe Mary
"It's going to be a big fight" says Christophe Mary
The complexity of the 1.6-litre V6 turbos with their twin energy recovery systems is causing a lot of anxiety within teams, and how well they deal with them will be key in dictating rankings. "It's going to be a big fight," says Christophe Mary, former engine developer at Mercedes and before that Ferrari. "At the beginning it's going to be the one with the best reliability, after 2-3 years it'll be the one with the most efficiency."

Mary is the guy who along with former Renault F1 engine developer Julien Lidsky were poached by Peugeot's Le Mans team just before the 908 programme got canned last year, and ended up creating a hybrid supermini.

Although out of the F1 game, both keep up to speed as to what's happening from former colleagues. "F1 next-gen is crazy next year, a kind of a nightmare," was Lidsky's summing up.

Will 2014 be another Red Bull season?
Will 2014 be another Red Bull season?
Here's one source of the complication: as well as the addition of the turbos, the new engines make 160hp from their power via an electric motor, up from around 80hp now. That's a significant loss if KERS should fail.

On the current system electricity is generated kinetically by the braking (hence the name Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems) but next year that'll be supplemented by another generator converting energy from exhaust gas heat.

Teams are having to figure out how to cool all this without creating a load of drag. "That's probably the thing that, I imagine, has most people up and down the pit lane scratching their heads," Caterham's technical director Mark Smith told the official F1 website earlier this year.

Stretching the brain cells further is making sure it all works together. "The interdependency between the different parts of the car is far greater on the 2014 car than today," said Toro Rosso's technical director James Key in the same interview.

See the link for Mercedes' 2014 engine vid
See the link for Mercedes' 2014 engine vid
The teams are also only allowed to use five engines next year, down from the current eight, and there's also a 100kg fuel limit, compared to no limit right now (most teams run with 160kg).

Along with the other regulations such as no aerodynamic benefit from exhaust gas flow from the single tailpipe, eight speed gearboxes up from seven, and tighter weight restrictions, it'll fascinating to see who manages to interpret this most cleverly and, more importantly reliably.

You can hear these fascinating new engines in action here from Mercedes and here from Renault. Cue loads of debate whether that breathy sound can ever match a naturally aspirated V8 or V10, but whatever you think of it, the power unit will play much a much bigger role than in today's tyre and aero-dependent racing, according to Key. Even if that role ends up being to dump front-runners onto the grass in a smoking heap.

[F1 pics: LAT Photographic]

Author
Discussion

Gus265

Original Poster:

265 posts

134 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
I sincerely hope this is correct - 3 seconds after the start of the race yesterday, I was totally depressed. Again.

exceed

454 posts

177 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
I can't wait for the coming year, this year has probably been the most boring in recent history. Couldn't even bring myself to watch last night's grand prix.

Hoping there's a real mix up next year with the turbo cars, not a fan of the limitation on fuel but we'll see how it's used. In my opinion F1 cars should be able to go ten tenths until the end of the race, none of this nursing the cars to the finish line. Fuel limitation sounds like another thing to worry about other than tyre wear, so hoping that the engines are a LOT more efficient than today's...

Thehandshake

181 posts

127 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
The problem lies within the track design not cars. Bring back old Hockenheim and Imola and get rid of all the Playstation looking Tilke designs and everything will be ok.

surpryze

9 posts

128 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos. And I reckon Red Bull are so far ahead that they can handle the changes no problem. I can't get my head around the vettel/webber gap though.. surely Red Bull have orchestrated the extreme difference in performance?

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

256 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
What did you say? F1?....

Nors

1,291 posts

156 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
Something needs to change for sure. All our 'main stream' motor sport is boring or non existant (F1 & Rallying).

I can't be bothered watching any of it either.

BT52

599 posts

274 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Don't you?

LankyPaddy

49 posts

268 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Errr

Nors

1,291 posts

156 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Have you been reading the same article or have you been smoking something?

WokkaWokka

704 posts

140 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
I don't think it will change much. After all if you can spend millions to develop something you have a red hot team around you that are capable of overcoming obstacles. If they don't overcome they have to walk further down the pit lane.

RINGMEISTER

154 posts

182 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
BT52 said:
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Don't you?
I think you'll be in for a big SURPRYZE

Baryonyx

18,022 posts

160 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
It could hardly be more boring than this year, so we'll see what happens.

PaulG40

2,381 posts

226 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
So it'll be another Redbull/Adrian Newey whitewash again for 2014. The chassis design will be key for these new engine/kers layouts and Newey is the master when it comes to exploiting and pushing the rule book and design window of the car.

Monkeylegend

26,534 posts

232 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Welcome to PH.

Do you have any inside knowledge as to what they are going to do then?

LordPetroleum

371 posts

171 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
What did you say? F1?....
++1

This, too late F1, I'm oot!

dukebox9reg

1,571 posts

149 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos. And I reckon Red Bull are so far ahead that they can handle the changes no problem. I can't get my head around the vettel/webber gap though.. surely Red Bull have orchestrated the extreme difference in performance?
Don't you love it when people comment and haven't got a clue what they are on about. You just looking for some attention?

Iv'e given up watching this season and I'm a big fan. Looking forward to next seasons TURBO cars.

LordPetroleum

371 posts

171 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
RINGMEISTER said:
BT52 said:
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
Don't you?
I think you'll be in for a big SURPRYZE
LOL, depress left foot on clutch pedal, engage brain prior to popping mouth/typing fingers in to gear me thinks wink

sagarich

1,220 posts

150 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
surpryze said:
It would be nice to see some changes, but I don't think they'll re-introduce turbos.
readbanghead

phil1979

3,561 posts

216 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
If they are going the turbo route, couldn't Red Bull's competitors simply get a remap from someone like Angel Tuning, to get an edge? The FIA wouldn't be able to test for it (a dealer can't tell that my car's been remapped), plus it would only be about £150. Also, the tuner can come to the premises, so no need to transport the car to them.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

256 months

Monday 4th November 2013
quotequote all
1600...? Wow..

What's for 2015, four wheeled recumbent bikes?