More Kitty Litter?
Discussion
It seems that the run-off areas are so wide these days that mistakes are rarely punished.
And yet, there is no apparent improvement in overtaking because of the extra room.
Punting the car into the kitty litter and getting stuck was a regular co-incidence in the past, but that all seems to have gone now. And the racing does not seem any better.
Would racing be better if there was more risk involved in going off-line, or would it make things worse?
And yet, there is no apparent improvement in overtaking because of the extra room.
Punting the car into the kitty litter and getting stuck was a regular co-incidence in the past, but that all seems to have gone now. And the racing does not seem any better.
Would racing be better if there was more risk involved in going off-line, or would it make things worse?
Completely agree there should be more gravel traps.
Alot of drivers seem to take the piss regarding track boundaries. It would punish silly mistakes and poor driving. The best example of late was Perez driving like a berk in Suzuka a couple of years ago. Overcooked his braking and got punished by beaching it in the gravel.
Proper old skool circuit though, none of these bland Tilke airfield's.
Alot of drivers seem to take the piss regarding track boundaries. It would punish silly mistakes and poor driving. The best example of late was Perez driving like a berk in Suzuka a couple of years ago. Overcooked his braking and got punished by beaching it in the gravel.
Proper old skool circuit though, none of these bland Tilke airfield's.
I drove silverstone GP this year in my caterham. Ok so it's a LOT slower than f1, but man, you'd have to make a special effort to reach the tyre barrier! You really can just drive as hard as you want, if you get a corner wrong, say copse, then you just correct and drive off the track, over an area that's like a small car park and rejoin.
Gaz. said:
AFC1886 said:
Proper old skool circuit though, none of these bland Tilke airfield's.
Spa has significant tarmac run offs now.There is only one good reason to use gravel, and plenty of bad ones. Abu Dhabi & Paul Ricard use abrasive strips which knacker your tyres & your race, but they don't have cars and bikes cart wheeling either.
REALIST123 said:
Gaz. said:
AFC1886 said:
Proper old skool circuit though, none of these bland Tilke airfield's.
Spa has significant tarmac run offs now.There is only one good reason to use gravel, and plenty of bad ones. Abu Dhabi & Paul Ricard use abrasive strips which knacker your tyres & your race, but they don't have cars and bikes cart wheeling either.
How about something like track - kerb - shallow gravel- tarmac runoff.
So the gravel is there to keep everyone on line and is a real punishment that could lead to spins/ punctures/ time loss but only being an inch or so deep is unlikely to lead to rollovers.
or maybe eliminate the gravel altogether and have a 5 ft wide strip of skid pan grade tarmac then onto grippy stuff to slow you down
So the gravel is there to keep everyone on line and is a real punishment that could lead to spins/ punctures/ time loss but only being an inch or so deep is unlikely to lead to rollovers.
or maybe eliminate the gravel altogether and have a 5 ft wide strip of skid pan grade tarmac then onto grippy stuff to slow you down
Chrisgr31 said:
Isn't the answer to have a penalty for going outside the track limits? or if you do there is a specific point you have to rejoin at which has the affect of making you lose time on that lap?
What about the system they use at Bedford Autodrome. The single seaters seem to have transponders that when triggered by an off track excursion cuts the engine until you rejoin. I realise that cutting the engine power suddenly can be a bad thing, but the trigger could for instance cut engine power by 150 bhp for 10 seconds after the car rejoins.That would learn them.
andygo said:
What about the system they use at Bedford Autodrome. The single seaters seem to have transponders that when triggered by an off track excursion cuts the engine until you rejoin. I realise that cutting the engine power suddenly can be a bad thing, but the trigger could for instance cut engine power by 150 bhp for 10 seconds after the car rejoins.
That would learn them.
More and more like a computer game, cutting corners on either Forza or Gran Turismo does something like this.That would learn them.
Safe runs off aren't a bad thing at all.
Not penalising a driver for using the run off, when they are gaining an advantage is the problem.
Here in the UK all the club racers are up in arms about the new MSA ruling about going outside the white lines that mark the track limits. All UK tracks have a continuis white line that marks the end of the tarmac. Kerbs and run offs live outside these white lines.
The existing rules allow you to run "2 wheels off" these white lines and usage of the kerbs. Certain tracks - Brands Hatch for example have various run off areas after the kerb and white lines. Paddock Hill and Graham Hill being the most used. You can get a considerable advantage for running all 4 wheels off in those areas and currently you can do that X times before getting a warning/penalty.
The new rules (and they are terrible written and no one really understands them) basically say you can't run any wheel outside the white lines and in some instances that even includes the kerbs. At Brands that's going to cost you maybe 4 secs !
That's the other extreme to keeping drivers on the black stuff. The MSA ruling is something Jonathan Palmer has forced in, simply because he doesn't want to keep paying for a bit of grass seed and filling in grooves where we run off consistently.
woof said:
Safe runs off aren't a bad thing at all.
Not penalising a driver for using the run off, when they are gaining an advantage is the problem.
Here in the UK all the club racers are up in arms about the new MSA ruling about going outside the white lines that mark the track limits. All UK tracks have a continuis white line that marks the end of the tarmac. Kerbs and run offs live outside these white lines.
The existing rules allow you to run "2 wheels off" these white lines and usage of the kerbs. Certain tracks - Brands Hatch for example have various run off areas after the kerb and white lines. Paddock Hill and Graham Hill being the most used. You can get a considerable advantage for running all 4 wheels off in those areas and currently you can do that X times before getting a warning/penalty.
The new rules (and they are terrible written and no one really understands them) basically say you can't run any wheel outside the white lines and in some instances that even includes the kerbs. At Brands that's going to cost you maybe 4 secs !
That's the other extreme to keeping drivers on the black stuff. The MSA ruling is something Jonathan Palmer has forced in, simply because he doesn't want to keep paying for a bit of grass seed and filling in grooves where we run off consistently.
And it will be enforced rigorously in every form of motor racing in the uk except the following:Not penalising a driver for using the run off, when they are gaining an advantage is the problem.
Here in the UK all the club racers are up in arms about the new MSA ruling about going outside the white lines that mark the track limits. All UK tracks have a continuis white line that marks the end of the tarmac. Kerbs and run offs live outside these white lines.
The existing rules allow you to run "2 wheels off" these white lines and usage of the kerbs. Certain tracks - Brands Hatch for example have various run off areas after the kerb and white lines. Paddock Hill and Graham Hill being the most used. You can get a considerable advantage for running all 4 wheels off in those areas and currently you can do that X times before getting a warning/penalty.
The new rules (and they are terrible written and no one really understands them) basically say you can't run any wheel outside the white lines and in some instances that even includes the kerbs. At Brands that's going to cost you maybe 4 secs !
That's the other extreme to keeping drivers on the black stuff. The MSA ruling is something Jonathan Palmer has forced in, simply because he doesn't want to keep paying for a bit of grass seed and filling in grooves where we run off consistently.
Btcc, f3, british gt,
and some drivers in their support races that can get away with murder whilst others seemingly get penalised just for turning up!Often when a car hits a gravel trap in its direction of travel then the car just won't slow down, there's no traction so the car can't stop.
In that situation tarmac run-off would be better as the car's brakes could be used to slow the car down.
I guess they have done the sums on it and by probability it is more safe to slow the car down itself before it hits the wall than to have it skate across kitty litter and hit the wall.
In that situation tarmac run-off would be better as the car's brakes could be used to slow the car down.
I guess they have done the sums on it and by probability it is more safe to slow the car down itself before it hits the wall than to have it skate across kitty litter and hit the wall.
woof said:
.
The new rules (and they are terrible written and no one really understands them) basically say you can't run any wheel outside the white lines and in some instances that even includes the kerbs. At Brands that's going to cost you maybe 4 secs !
That's the other extreme to keeping drivers on the black stuff. The MSA ruling is something Jonathan Palmer has forced in, simply because he doesn't want to keep paying for a bit of grass seed and filling in grooves where we run off consistently.
Correction, at brands that's going to cost everyone who obeys the rules 4 seconds, & those that don't a penalty.The new rules (and they are terrible written and no one really understands them) basically say you can't run any wheel outside the white lines and in some instances that even includes the kerbs. At Brands that's going to cost you maybe 4 secs !
That's the other extreme to keeping drivers on the black stuff. The MSA ruling is something Jonathan Palmer has forced in, simply because he doesn't want to keep paying for a bit of grass seed and filling in grooves where we run off consistently.
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