Force India on the edge
Discussion
I find it quite tiresome F1 banging on about keeping costs down but insisting on using tiny engines which, in order to develop a respectable amount of power from very little displacement, have to be ridiculously sophisticated. Then, mindful of the cost of the engines, they impose limits on the number of engines per season to try to keep costs down, which necessitates even more expensive R&D as they now have to make the aforementioned ridiculously sophisticated engines reliable. The answer is simple. Scrap the hybrid systems and turbos and build simple, normally aspirated engines and give then whatever displacement is required to make them powerful enough to cut it. Chances are there'll be no need for an engine limit as they'll be cheaper and they'll break less anyway as they're simpler. Result: Lower cost, no grid penalties ruining the competition and fewer teams going under.
MitchT said:
I find it quite tiresome F1 banging on about keeping costs down but insisting on using tiny engines which, in order to develop a respectable amount of power from very little displacement, have to be ridiculously sophisticated. Then, mindful of the cost of the engines, they impose limits on the number of engines per season to try to keep costs down, which necessitates even more expensive R&D as they now have to make the aforementioned ridiculously sophisticated engines reliable. The answer is simple. Scrap the hybrid systems and turbos and build simple, normally aspirated engines and give then whatever displacement is required to make them powerful enough to cut it. Chances are there'll be no need for an engine limit as they'll be cheaper and they'll break less anyway as they're simpler. Result: Lower cost, no grid penalties ruining the competition and fewer teams going under.
The FIA rule book is the best joke book in the World.The problem is you have a number of teams who can just throw money at anything and you have the teams that struggle to survive.
But if you try and cost cut or change anything the big teams take a hissy fit and threaten to leave.
Damon Hill's points about Mercedes just shows what is going on but Liberty need to change something and quick.
Can F1 then survive if Ferrari and Mercedes were to pull out??
Depends is any other manufacturers would join the party but again this would depend on costs.
I am 100% positive if you made the series more affordable you would attract other manufacturers and private teams which would be better than having a few teams with all the power.
Changing engines again will just cause another one team to rule for the next four years. If they stuck with what they have at least most of the grid are now closer to each other compared to the Mercedes advantage when the new cars appeared in 2014.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 30th March 14:28
ELUSIVEJIM said:
But if you try and cost cut or change anything the big teams take a hissy fit and threaten to leave.
Let them! If F1 is being made almost uninhabitable for all but a couple of exceptionally rich teams then who'd follow suit if they left 'cause they weren't getting their way? Noone I suspect 'cause the teams left behind would be far better off.ELUSIVEJIM said:
Can F1 then survive if Ferrari and Mercedes were to pull out??
I suspect it would thrive. Without their stranglehold it would enable useful changes to be introduced that the "big two" have vetoed making the sport wholly more accessible and creating a much greater competition. If Mercedes and Ferrari want to have a two make series in tumbleweedland then let them!MitchT said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
But if you try and cost cut or change anything the big teams take a hissy fit and threaten to leave.
Let them! If F1 is being made almost uninhabitable for all but a couple of exceptionally rich teams then who'd follow suit if they left 'cause they weren't getting their way? Noone I suspect 'cause the teams left behind would be far better off.ELUSIVEJIM said:
Can F1 then survive if Ferrari and Mercedes were to pull out??
I suspect it would thrive. Without their stranglehold it would enable useful changes to be introduced that the "big two" have vetoed making the sport wholly more accessible and creating a much greater competition. If Mercedes and Ferrari want to have a two make series in tumbleweedland then let them!If I were a car mechanic I would prefer to work on a Ferrari than a BMW as I know the engineering would be better.
AndStilliRise said:
I suspect without Ferrari it would crumble. Why would anyone want to watch a series without big names? Why does the premier league attract more crowd's than the championship? Because we want to watch the most talented teams.
If I were a car mechanic I would prefer to work on a Ferrari than a BMW as I know the engineering would be better.
I very much doubt F1 would crumble if Ferrari left.If I were a car mechanic I would prefer to work on a Ferrari than a BMW as I know the engineering would be better.
Yes there have been there basically from the start but it is not one team that makes F1.
As others have mentioned it could be a good thing.
If anything it would be Ferrari that would make F1 crumble.
Piginapoke said:
The article says that Williams have veto'd FI receiving an early payment. Happy Easter from Claire!
Williams is not exactly flush with cash and they know that they are directly competing with Force India. With them out of the way, Williams have a bite at a bigger chunk of points. Shame that a team which has previously had to rely on the largesse of others, incuding Force India after the Barcelona fire, has to deal such a hand, wouldn’t have happened when Frank ran the team and it does illustrate the issues in that team between the three siblings. Porsche must be watching very closely from the wings and wondering just how small a price they will have to pay to pick up the team in 2020.em177 said:
DanielSan said:
The first big payment of cash from their finishing position comes on April 1st so they won’t be anywhere as near as skint in a couple of days time.
So you get your reward payment after the winter is finished, too late to use developing the next years car? rubystone said:
Piginapoke said:
The article says that Williams have veto'd FI receiving an early payment. Happy Easter from Claire!
Williams is not exactly flush with cash and they know that they are directly competing with Force India. With them out of the way, Williams have a bite at a bigger chunk of points. Shame that a team which has previously had to rely on the largesse of others, incuding Force India after the Barcelona fire, has to deal such a hand, wouldn’t have happened when Frank ran the team and it does illustrate the issues in that team between the three siblings. Porsche must be watching very closely from the wings and wondering just how small a price they will have to pay to pick up the team in 2020.
k move by Williams, what’s going to happen if they need to ask for an early payment of funds are right later in the year? Bare in mind it needs ALL teams to agree to the money being released Force India can now hang them out to dry if they choose to... Teams have had early payments or loans from Bernie for years and the other teams have always chosen not to veto it purely on the grounds of knowing they could need the same thing in a few months. Williams next year are currently a team with no title sponsor and who knows what 2 drivers in the car. Flush with cash they aren’t likely to be come next April...
If I was Liberty, my strategy would be to get other teams in, to the level we had for a while when there was prequalifying. I'd also get other engine manufacturers. That'd be the time to tell Ferrari and Merc to button it. The tactics will be difficult and Merc and Ferrari's possible strategy is to limit the number of teams on the grid so that their presence is essential.
At the moment if Merc and Ferrari engines were to be pulled, the series folds. Both teams are held by contract of course. Still, it is one hell of a hand.
The current situation is a bit of a mess. No team seems to be happy other than Ferrari and Merc. FI might be telling the truth that they are struggling. Or it might be some kid of ploy, for whatever reason.
Who knows in F1?
At the moment if Merc and Ferrari engines were to be pulled, the series folds. Both teams are held by contract of course. Still, it is one hell of a hand.
The current situation is a bit of a mess. No team seems to be happy other than Ferrari and Merc. FI might be telling the truth that they are struggling. Or it might be some kid of ploy, for whatever reason.
Who knows in F1?
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