Force India nightmare
Discussion
I've been a firm fan of the Silverstone team, from its inception as the beautiful 7up sponsored Jordan, all the way through to now. I try to forget the Midland / Spyker years as they tested my faith to the limit. It saddens me that the team is in the position it is now but much as I'm sure Mallya is a bit of a villain in people's minds, I'm more worried about the general attitude of other privateer teams in the pitlane.
The first nail in the coffin was Haas refusing Force India their request of their prize money for 2017 up front, as had been the case for several seasons. This meant that Force India were immediately several millions down in their budget for the year, stalling development. Haas win.
Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
I'm probably just annoyed because it's happening to my team, but surely it's in the longterm interests of F1 for the smaller teams to be a success? Nobody else seems to want to enter the sport, so losing them would be a travesty in my view.
The first nail in the coffin was Haas refusing Force India their request of their prize money for 2017 up front, as had been the case for several seasons. This meant that Force India were immediately several millions down in their budget for the year, stalling development. Haas win.
Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
I'm probably just annoyed because it's happening to my team, but surely it's in the longterm interests of F1 for the smaller teams to be a success? Nobody else seems to want to enter the sport, so losing them would be a travesty in my view.
It's six of one and half a dozen of the other. What those teams are doing is making a stand against B teams. The general feeling is that whoever buys FI will basically end up running as a Mercedes B team. With Sauber and Torro Rosso already in those roles for Ferrari and Red Bull it's not hard to see why those teams would want to make a point.
One thing it does do is make sure that whoever puts bids in is interested in the team long term not just as a quick way of milking it for the prize money it's due.
I fully expect those three would vote in favour once it's clearer who is interested and under what terms.
One thing it does do is make sure that whoever puts bids in is interested in the team long term not just as a quick way of milking it for the prize money it's due.
I fully expect those three would vote in favour once it's clearer who is interested and under what terms.
SmashRobot said:
I've been a firm fan of the Silverstone team, from its inception as the beautiful 7up sponsored Jordan, all the way through to now. I try to forget the Midland / Spyker years as they tested my faith to the limit. It saddens me that the team is in the position it is now but much as I'm sure Mallya is a bit of a villain in people's minds, I'm more worried about the general attitude of other privateer teams in the pitlane.
The first nail in the coffin was Haas refusing Force India their request of their prize money for 2017 up front, as had been the case for several seasons. This meant that Force India were immediately several millions down in their budget for the year, stalling development. Haas win.
Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
I'm probably just annoyed because it's happening to my team, but surely it's in the longterm interests of F1 for the smaller teams to be a success? Nobody else seems to want to enter the sport, so losing them would be a travesty in my view.
I have not read much about what has been going on with Force India but obviously I have heard about Mallya and his shady deals.The first nail in the coffin was Haas refusing Force India their request of their prize money for 2017 up front, as had been the case for several seasons. This meant that Force India were immediately several millions down in their budget for the year, stalling development. Haas win.
Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
I'm probably just annoyed because it's happening to my team, but surely it's in the longterm interests of F1 for the smaller teams to be a success? Nobody else seems to want to enter the sport, so losing them would be a travesty in my view.
It is a real shame as whatever was going on behind the scenes the team always did a brilliant job considering what they were up against in money terms.
But it's F1 so it will get nasty and political.
Love the pink panthers!
The rules are that if a team go into administration and is subsequently restarted with out the previous liability's, the prize money is forfeited, clearly the way around this is to remain in administration until the end of the season (so the prize money can be distributed to the creditors), then form a new team or come out of administration if the creditors can be satisfied.
I have already made some comments on the last race thread around the administration.
My understanding to date is that Laurence Stroll has already placed enough funds (via loan) to cover the next two payrolls, and costs to run the business until Spa, with the administrator.
Clearly the two parties whom have made the winding up order, Mercedes and Sergio Perez, will need to work with the administrator and or the new shareholders/owners in getting this to work and making it sustainable for the future, the majority of the debt in this team/company is actually owed by Force Indias 100% shareholder Orange India Holdings (Luxembourg), and its estimated they are owned 250/260 million, where the two parties are owed 10 million & 3 million.
One thing is for sure that this should not be happening in the middle of a season, and what will Liberty do to ensure this does not happen again.
The rules are that if a team go into administration and is subsequently restarted with out the previous liability's, the prize money is forfeited, clearly the way around this is to remain in administration until the end of the season (so the prize money can be distributed to the creditors), then form a new team or come out of administration if the creditors can be satisfied.
I have already made some comments on the last race thread around the administration.
My understanding to date is that Laurence Stroll has already placed enough funds (via loan) to cover the next two payrolls, and costs to run the business until Spa, with the administrator.
Clearly the two parties whom have made the winding up order, Mercedes and Sergio Perez, will need to work with the administrator and or the new shareholders/owners in getting this to work and making it sustainable for the future, the majority of the debt in this team/company is actually owed by Force Indias 100% shareholder Orange India Holdings (Luxembourg), and its estimated they are owned 250/260 million, where the two parties are owed 10 million & 3 million.
One thing is for sure that this should not be happening in the middle of a season, and what will Liberty do to ensure this does not happen again.
Deesee said:
The rules are that if a team go into administration and is subsequently restarted with out the previous liability's, the prize money is forfeited, clearly the way around this is to remain in administration until the end of the season (so the prize money can be distributed to the creditors), then form a new team or come out of administration if the creditors can be satisfied.
The prize money isn't paid all in one go though. Waiting until the end of the season would only see some of it paid. If all the other teams agree (which is the problem at the moment) then all the prize money can be paid to the new team over the correct periods regardless of how they exit administration.I think a lot of people are missing the point that without Perez, Mercedes and BWT doing the last minute administration legal step Force India would have been wound up immediately.
Kraken said:
Deesee said:
The rules are that if a team go into administration and is subsequently restarted with out the previous liability's, the prize money is forfeited, clearly the way around this is to remain in administration until the end of the season (so the prize money can be distributed to the creditors), then form a new team or come out of administration if the creditors can be satisfied.
The prize money isn't paid all in one go though. Waiting until the end of the season would only see some of it paid. If all the other teams agree (which is the problem at the moment) then all the prize money can be paid to the new team over the correct periods regardless of how they exit administration.I think a lot of people are missing the point that without Perez, Mercedes and BWT doing the last minute administration legal step Force India would have been wound up immediately.
Deesee said:
Im not so sure on either of those points, but I was not at the court, when the Administrator updates his report, ill have a read, and ping a link on to here.
Both points have been reported multiple times in respected publications so I think it's fair to say they are accurate.Kraken said:
Deesee said:
Im not so sure on either of those points, but I was not at the court, when the Administrator updates his report, ill have a read, and ping a link on to here.
Both points have been reported multiple times in respected publications so I think it's fair to say they are accurate.As before let’s see how it’s played out, when the court and court appointed administrator report the case and its findings.
SmashRobot said:
I'm more worried about the general attitude of other privateer teams in the pitlane.
Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
Renault is a privateer team?!Now we apparently have Renault, McLaren and Williams blocking any new owners from getting any money from F1 at all. I'm sure a rich enough buyer could cope without them but it's a hell of a punt compared to knowing you will get some of your investment back in the first year.
Deesee said:
Extremely interesting viewing. I'd never seen Mr Storey before, and yes his appearance was a bit surprising, but he comes across as very knowledgeable and credible. If he has the financial backing he says he does then it could be interesting times ahead. He dodged the Perez question quite well.Mr Storey came across as pretty sharp and very assured in that clip.
But I can not find anywhere to buy his product `rich energy` drinks.
The company Rich Energy Ltd was formed in 2015 with £50 of capital. Mr Storey is listed at companies house as a computer consultant. The 2 other Shareholders and directors are listed as `a fitness instructor` and `a publican`.
So now he says he has 3 billionaire investors backing him through an offshore vehicle. But their identities are secret. It might be legit......but it could well not be! I have seen speculation elsewhere that he is a front for Mr Malya who hopes to use him to retain under the table ownership and screw over the other shareholders who are also creditors for @75% of the debts. It just looks very odd to me, let alone the money laundering possibilities.
But I can not find anywhere to buy his product `rich energy` drinks.
The company Rich Energy Ltd was formed in 2015 with £50 of capital. Mr Storey is listed at companies house as a computer consultant. The 2 other Shareholders and directors are listed as `a fitness instructor` and `a publican`.
So now he says he has 3 billionaire investors backing him through an offshore vehicle. But their identities are secret. It might be legit......but it could well not be! I have seen speculation elsewhere that he is a front for Mr Malya who hopes to use him to retain under the table ownership and screw over the other shareholders who are also creditors for @75% of the debts. It just looks very odd to me, let alone the money laundering possibilities.
Gaz. said:
Didn't Williams say in March that if FI went under they would get a bigger slice of the prize money pie?
I'm somewhat surprised by Mclaren and Renault blocking this, where's Williams and Sauber both have form for f
king over anyone for a biscuit.
Indeed. There can be few surprised by Williams opting for profit.I'm somewhat surprised by Mclaren and Renault blocking this, where's Williams and Sauber both have form for f
king over anyone for a biscuit.I'm a fan of the team, but sometimes they are really shortsighted.
SmashRobot said:
Deesee said:
Extremely interesting viewing. I'd never seen Mr Storey before, and yes his appearance was a bit surprising, but he comes across as very knowledgeable and credible. If he has the financial backing he says he does then it could be interesting times ahead. He dodged the Perez question quite well.Apparently went to the court with 30 million of bank guarantees, believe me that’s not easy.
I don’t want to get drawn on the perez/Mercedes plantif shannaigans, I’ve had my say, and until the court docs are released I’m happy to sit on my side of the fence.
Williams really need to be very careful blocking this, they’re a few months away from Stroll’s cash leaving the building and Martini no longer being a title sponsor, and looking like they’ll be bottom of the order for the next couple of seasons at least. The way they’re going it won’t be long before they’re on their knees begging F1 to let them have early payments of prize money. Is it really in their interests to block something when they’re likely to need support from other teams in the near future?
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