0-200km/h in 4.4sec
Discussion
ATM said:
Many years ago - like 15 to 20 - I'm sure they said the F1 of that era did 80 mph in 1st gear in about 2 seconds. Then with the aero of that era once over around 100 mph - guessing again - they could drive upside down as produced more down force than weight of the car.
If we weren't in an aero era then they could probably still do 80 in 2 seconds now. Hard to compare the tyres from different era's too. As it is it's more like 60-65 in the first two seconds. But a lot more happens in the following 2 seconds once the car is settled into the track.F1 cars, for decades have been theoretically able to drive upside down. And in theory pretty safely too. At 150+ the downforce is about 1500kg Vs it's 700kg weight. In other words, whilst upside down in the tunnel, it's being pushed up against the tunnel roof with as much force as it has when stationary on the ground.
Getting them up to 150mph and flipping them on to the roof of a tunnel is the tricky bit - and getting them back down again in one piece
TheDeuce said:
If we weren't in an aero era then they could probably still do 80 in 2 seconds now. Hard to compare the tyres from different era's too. As it is it's more like 60-65 in the first two seconds. But a lot more happens in the following 2 seconds once the car is settled into the track.
Yep, mostly lost of traction at lower speeds. If an F1 car could put down ALL the power it would hit 120 in around 2 seconds.TheDeuce said:
Getting them up to 150mph and flipping them on to the roof of a tunnel is the tricky bit - and getting them back down again in one piece
Getting the oil in the engine to go where you want it to when it's upside down is fun too. They'd need an oil system similar to an old piston aero engine.thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
Getting them up to 150mph and flipping them on to the roof of a tunnel is the tricky bit - and getting them back down again in one piece
Getting the oil in the engine to go where you want it to when it's upside down is fun too. They'd need an oil system similar to an old piston aero engine.janesmith1950 said:
ATM said:
I'm going to disagree with this. Surely based on the forces these cars experience the oil system can cope whichever way is up or down.
Not so sure. I'd expect they're designed for lateral forces but not for vertical inversion. That said, oil is viscous stuff and the current system would probably see the engine through a few hundred metres of tunnel until the car was the right way up again. The turbo would be the big concern but that would probably survive what would in reality be a few seconds for the sake of such a publicity stunt.
ATM said:
Ok I was wrong. Just did a quick Google and best comparison I could come up with was 4 stroke engines on aircraft. These all use dry sump systems - that's obvious - but they do need tweaking to support inversion.
With any such engine I'd expect there is a limit to how long it can run inverted for though - although with modifications I guess it's not rocket science to ensure the fluids flow as required no matter what.When Richard Hammond for old TG drove the defender up a vertical dam face they had to move the engine into the back and have it pivot so it remained the right way up. I'm guessing the length of his ascent was longer than the engine could have coped with at such an angle. If it was inverted for ten seconds though... Most engines would probably survive that.
A super high tuned F1 engine however, maybe much more sensitive. Whatever though, if any team decided to perform such a stunt I'm sure they'd have the resources to engineer around any such problems for the sake of a smooth run.
Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 22 November 08:40
Mark-C said:
Don't Radial engines always have smething upside down?
Yes, and as such they're designed differently for different applications. Many used in aircraft were air cooled, which is much easier with the radial layout. Those that are oil cooled tend to use a lot of it.Not really much use when talking about an F1 car driving upside though.
TheDeuce said:
janesmith1950 said:
ATM said:
I'm going to disagree with this. Surely based on the forces these cars experience the oil system can cope whichever way is up or down.
Not so sure. I'd expect they're designed for lateral forces but not for vertical inversion. That said, oil is viscous stuff and the current system would probably see the engine through a few hundred metres of tunnel until the car was the right way up again. The turbo would be the big concern but that would probably survive what would in reality be a few seconds for the sake of such a publicity stunt.
geeks said:
TheDeuce said:
janesmith1950 said:
ATM said:
I'm going to disagree with this. Surely based on the forces these cars experience the oil system can cope whichever way is up or down.
Not so sure. I'd expect they're designed for lateral forces but not for vertical inversion. That said, oil is viscous stuff and the current system would probably see the engine through a few hundred metres of tunnel until the car was the right way up again. The turbo would be the big concern but that would probably survive what would in reality be a few seconds for the sake of such a publicity stunt.
Kinda confirms in theory it's all relatively do-able, and that oil flow is the thing they'd need to get a bit clever about. The point I hadn't considered is who would drive it, given that no current F1 driver would be allowed to. Hulkenberg...?
Alonso! People are always speculating he'll come back in some capacity - this gets my vote.
Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 22 November 14:18
TheDeuce said:
geeks said:
TheDeuce said:
janesmith1950 said:
ATM said:
I'm going to disagree with this. Surely based on the forces these cars experience the oil system can cope whichever way is up or down.
Not so sure. I'd expect they're designed for lateral forces but not for vertical inversion. That said, oil is viscous stuff and the current system would probably see the engine through a few hundred metres of tunnel until the car was the right way up again. The turbo would be the big concern but that would probably survive what would in reality be a few seconds for the sake of such a publicity stunt.
Kinda confirms in theory it's all relatively do-able, and that oil flow is the thing they'd need to get a bit clever about. The point I hadn't considered is who would drive it, given that no current F1 driver would be allowed to. Hulkenberg...?
Alonso! People are always speculating he'll come back in some capacity - this gets my vote.
Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 22 November 14:18
I suppose... It wouldn't have to be an official F1 team that performed the stunt. There are plenty slightly older cars that still have enough down force to make this possible. Perhaps such a spectacle could be crowd funded? I'l sling someone £50 if they could convince me they had a plan to actually do this. Christ knows it's been discussed enough over the years.
I also agree, Red Bull attachment on some level would be the natural choice. If a campaign hit it's targets and it looked like they really going to get it done, I imagine RB would be open to taking it over and probably providing a suitably modified car. They might not have any intention of doing it right now... But if someone else was about to do it anyway, they might suddenly get quite interested
I work fairly often with the guys behind these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yatAJVA_4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y64JhPtpicA
Now these two are ticked off the list, it probably is about time to drive along the roof of a tunnel
I also agree, Red Bull attachment on some level would be the natural choice. If a campaign hit it's targets and it looked like they really going to get it done, I imagine RB would be open to taking it over and probably providing a suitably modified car. They might not have any intention of doing it right now... But if someone else was about to do it anyway, they might suddenly get quite interested
I work fairly often with the guys behind these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yatAJVA_4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y64JhPtpicA
Now these two are ticked off the list, it probably is about time to drive along the roof of a tunnel
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