Virtual racers are not racers
Discussion
This bloke said:
"With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
"With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
tommy1973s said:
This bloke said:
"With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
This is just fairly general / typical marketing or media BS, like many other marketing 'claims' needs to be taken with a fairly big pinch of salt."With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
The guy is riding high in Esports, he's obviously going to be promoting it where he can. Like many people, they're not going to bite the hand that feeds them though are they...
This isn't a reflection of all 'Esports racers', some of them are genuinely humble and down to earth on their channels / streams.
Baldchap said:
There was a TV program where they got kids who were good at racing games and turned them into actual racers. It was called GT Academy. IIRC the best video game guys made very good drivers. Previous winners have had Le Mans and GT racing success.
Unfortunately, some of those winners also had some kind of minor or amateur motorsports background and were not 100% gamers with no motorpsorts experience.Some were genuine gamers with no real life experience who went on to be professionals i.e Jann Mardenborough (I think he was 100% gamer) but others had done things like karting or formula ford etc at some level.
The other end of the scale is that some 'Esports' online racers have never even driven a real car, even though they were old enough and physically capable. Pretty sure one finalist for one of the UK GT academy series had to take driving lessons pretty sharpish to get their licence, and a few years back one of the top Iracing guys had never driven a car in real life (not to sure about the details on that one though).
tommy1973s said:
Virtual racers are not racers
Anything can be a "race" - running, cycling, rowing, horseracing, snail racing, ... - any competition where the winner is the first to cover a set distance to the finish line is appropriately described as a race. Therefore I'd argue that a virtual racer is still a racer.tommy1973s said:
"With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
Well, the first part of that quote is fairly clearly true - the control challenge in virtual racing is pretty much the same as real racing, apart from slight infidelities in the simulation engine. It's the same challenge of using throttle, brake and steering inputs to get the car to lap as fast as possible. If anything the lack of real physical feedback makes the control challenge more difficult in the virtual space. But control is, in a fundamental mathematical sense the same challenge.No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
On the second part, I agree with you, I think "heart" conveys something of courage, of a willingness to risk something more than a simulated bounce off a stone-textured-polygon wall in the cause of victory. And there's something notable about a willingness to take certain risks in the real world, with real consequences, that will never apply in simulation.
So IMHO virtual racing is another form of racing, valid in itself as a form of racing alongside all the others. It's definitely not the same as real motorsport, but it's as much racing as racing cars, bicycles, boats or horses is.
Old_Skool_Fool said:
tommy1973s said:
This bloke said:
"With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
This is just fairly general / typical marketing or media BS, like many other marketing 'claims' needs to be taken with a fairly big pinch of salt."With esports, you can show that you still have the control and heart of a real racer.”
See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52159051
No you can't, mate. I'm sure it's fun. But there is no physicality in an online arcade game; and, critically, there are no adverse consequences if you mess up.
One of the most fatuous comparisons ever made; and an insult to real racers.
The guy is riding high in Esports, he's obviously going to be promoting it where he can. Like many people, they're not going to bite the hand that feeds them though are they...
This isn't a reflection of all 'Esports racers', some of them are genuinely humble and down to earth on their channels / streams.
Baldchap said:
There was a TV program where they got kids who were good at racing games and turned them into actual racers. It was called GT Academy. IIRC the best video game guys made very good drivers. Previous winners have had Le Mans and GT racing success.
Unfortunately, some of those winners also had some kind of minor or amateur motorsports background and were not 100% gamers with no motorpsorts experience.Some were genuine gamers with no real life experience who went on to be professionals i.e Jann Mardenborough (I think he was 100% gamer) but others had done things like karting or formula ford etc at some level.
The other end of the scale is that some 'Esports' online racers have never even driven a real car, even though they were old enough and physically capable. Pretty sure one finalist for one of the UK GT academy series had to take driving lessons pretty sharpish to get their licence, and a few years back one of the top Iracing guys had never driven a car in real life (not to sure about the details on that one though).
Imagine, just ‘cause he was useful in some digital race, he could think he could handle a REAL MAN’S RACE CAR. Wow!
Stuart70 said:
Yeah I saw some LeClerc guy won the eSports F1 race last weekend, I mean wtf has he ever done in a real racing car.
Imagine, just ‘cause he was useful in some digital race, he could think he could handle a REAL MAN’S RACE CAR. Wow!
Not sure why you're quoting my reply with this post?Imagine, just ‘cause he was useful in some digital race, he could think he could handle a REAL MAN’S RACE CAR. Wow!
WonkeyDonkey said:
Sim driving is as a skill is a lot more transferable than shooter games.
There's a streamer on twitch called 'lando norris', really good in the online world and I'd bet he'd be alright in a real car as well.
Max Verstappen was / is a member of one of the most successful and highest profile esports/virtual racing teams "TRL".There's a streamer on twitch called 'lando norris', really good in the online world and I'd bet he'd be alright in a real car as well.
Some of the Blancpain GT drivers (and winners) are GTsport regulars too - David Perel and Igor Fraga.
Igor Fraga recently won one of the major GTsport Esport world finals.
Old_Skool_Fool said:
Stuart70 said:
Yeah I saw some LeClerc guy won the eSports F1 race last weekend, I mean wtf has he ever done in a real racing car.
Imagine, just ‘cause he was useful in some digital race, he could think he could handle a REAL MAN’S RACE CAR. Wow!
Not sure why you're quoting my reply with this post?Imagine, just ‘cause he was useful in some digital race, he could think he could handle a REAL MAN’S RACE CAR. Wow!
Zarco said:
Begs the question why professional racers bother with simulators and games.
Must be because its nothing like real racing
Apologies to the mods for double post.Must be because its nothing like real racing
Re quote above, there was an interesting video from Jimmy Broadbent when he was invited to test the BWM DTM simulator.
Jimmy may not be the best esports / virtual racer, but he's not bad and has alot of experience in different virtual racing and is fairly decent.
But he couldn't match the time of the real life driver from the simulator.
Generally speaking I think there's no guarantee of "success" or speed when crossing over (from real life to virtual or vica versa), from either direction, there's examples of failure and success for both.
"Virtual racers are not racers". I'm pretty sure Lando Norris, Charles Leclerc, Max Verstappen, Alexander Albon, Antonio Giovinazzi, etc., are real racing drivers .. They're playing/streaming iRacing and F1 basically all the time at the moment.
https://www.twitch.tv/iamcharlesleclerc16
https://www.twitch.tv/landonorris/
And the opinion of Charles himself: https://www.twitch.tv/iamcharlesleclerc16/clip/Res...
https://www.twitch.tv/iamcharlesleclerc16
https://www.twitch.tv/landonorris/
And the opinion of Charles himself: https://www.twitch.tv/iamcharlesleclerc16/clip/Res...
Edited by 130R on Friday 10th April 17:59
Baldchap said:
There was a TV program where they got kids who were good at racing games and turned them into actual racers. It was called GT Academy. IIRC the best video game guys made very good drivers. Previous winners have had Le Mans and GT racing success.
The vast majority of them were dropped pretty quickly though. There were only two (from memory) that did really well.Since lockdown I’ve been putting in some serious hours on my sim rig, nothing fancy just a force feedback wheel, H pattern box with clutch- as close as one can get to the real thing without spending silly money (or at least what I consider to be silly money).
It’s great fun, but it’s not the same thing. There’s definitely skill to it, I can say so with certainty as I don’t have it! I’m an alright peddler in ‘real life’, prefer a car to oversteer and like the sensation of being a bit loose and ragged. Driving mostly predictable and RWD cars, and having a good amount of seat time in them, I’m not usually surprised by breaking traction and can react to slides quite quickly. Without the ‘seat of the pants’ sensation I can’t do this on the sim. I try to choose cars with the same characteristics to drive on the sim so that I can recreate the style, but usually end up going round in circles, er.. quite a lot. Braking without locking up (ABS option off) is also a challenge, I think there’s some instinct involved in feeling how much braking force is being put through the car and whether it will manage any more without locking up. Can’t get this sensation on the sim.
Long story short, yes I think there is real skill in sim racing. I don’t however believe that it translates completely in the real world, I think they’re different things really.
ETA: I’ve got quite a few ties to Club100 and the sim racers don’t acquit themselves too well, despite being vastly quicker on sims.
It’s great fun, but it’s not the same thing. There’s definitely skill to it, I can say so with certainty as I don’t have it! I’m an alright peddler in ‘real life’, prefer a car to oversteer and like the sensation of being a bit loose and ragged. Driving mostly predictable and RWD cars, and having a good amount of seat time in them, I’m not usually surprised by breaking traction and can react to slides quite quickly. Without the ‘seat of the pants’ sensation I can’t do this on the sim. I try to choose cars with the same characteristics to drive on the sim so that I can recreate the style, but usually end up going round in circles, er.. quite a lot. Braking without locking up (ABS option off) is also a challenge, I think there’s some instinct involved in feeling how much braking force is being put through the car and whether it will manage any more without locking up. Can’t get this sensation on the sim.
Long story short, yes I think there is real skill in sim racing. I don’t however believe that it translates completely in the real world, I think they’re different things really.
ETA: I’ve got quite a few ties to Club100 and the sim racers don’t acquit themselves too well, despite being vastly quicker on sims.
I do find my spatial awareness of other cars is improved.
If I'm putting in a lot on hours on iRacing I am aware I am more comfortable, on roundabouts for example where there are multiple cars dithering and not knowing which lane they want to be in.
The time trying to get a basic grasp of sim setups has also improved my real life knowledge for both road and track days.
If I'm putting in a lot on hours on iRacing I am aware I am more comfortable, on roundabouts for example where there are multiple cars dithering and not knowing which lane they want to be in.
The time trying to get a basic grasp of sim setups has also improved my real life knowledge for both road and track days.
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