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Discussion
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Sporting contests were created to escape from, and indeed transcend, politics and religion.
Ancient Greece understood the fundamentals.
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
jsf said:
It's not, it will be a very long time before electric can match the energy stored in fuel. Put an FE car on an F1 circuit and under Grand Prix conditions and you will realise just how far away electric is from current petrol tech in racing.
I don't think that's going to be the battlefield. It's possible the fight will be over the 'relevance of a sport which uses planet killing fossil fuels'.I can see the demos outside the factories in my mind's eye now. (Other than at Maranello, obvs.
)The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
I think that this was a big breakthrough, post Bernie.Instead of picking them off one-by-one there does seem to be some general consensus as to the furniture format of racing, at a sustainable level.
I think that the haemorrhaging of revenue caused by Covid has been a big wake-up call to the teams, F1 and FIA. Hopefully, by 2025, everyone, will also see the financial and competitive benefits.
With a bit of luck impressing fans will be at the heart of the 2025 negotiations. Conveniently the SKY deal ends in 2024.
rdjohn said:
I think that this was a big breakthrough, post Bernie.
Instead of picking them off one-by-one there does seem to be some general consensus as to the furniture format of racing, at a sustainable level.
I think that the haemorrhaging of revenue caused by Covid has been a big wake-up call to the teams, F1 and FIA. Hopefully, by 2025, everyone, will also see the financial and competitive benefits.
With a bit of luck impressing fans will be at the heart of the 2025 negotiations. Conveniently the SKY deal ends in 2024.
Ikea planning an entry?Instead of picking them off one-by-one there does seem to be some general consensus as to the furniture format of racing, at a sustainable level.
I think that the haemorrhaging of revenue caused by Covid has been a big wake-up call to the teams, F1 and FIA. Hopefully, by 2025, everyone, will also see the financial and competitive benefits.
With a bit of luck impressing fans will be at the heart of the 2025 negotiations. Conveniently the SKY deal ends in 2024.
Blib said:
jsf said:
It's not, it will be a very long time before electric can match the energy stored in fuel. Put an FE car on an F1 circuit and under Grand Prix conditions and you will realise just how far away electric is from current petrol tech in racing.
I don't think that's going to be the battlefield. It's possible the fight will be over the 'relevance of a sport which uses planet killing fossil fuels'.I can see the demos outside the factories in my mind's eye now. (Other than at Maranello, obvs.
)Battery density needs to improve three fold over what it currently is to make it feasible. So far the only cell manufacturer that I'm aware of even having the next gen 'solid state' cells ready to enter production is Hitachi, who will achieve an energy density of around double the present levels - they'll be several years away from ramping up production volume and bringing the price down to a remotely realistic level though. With improving manufacturing techniques solid state will eventually yield 3 times the present day energy density at which point pretty much any current ICE car could become an EV and suffer no weight or range penalty as a result, and be bloody quick! But that point is at least 10 years off - at the very least. The technology required is proving extremely difficult to master, there is no dependable time frame for when it will be conquered. When it is however, it will transform our world very quickly.
sparta6 said:
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Sporting contests were created to escape from, and indeed transcend, politics and religion.
Ancient Greece understood the fundamentals.
I don't disagree with your sentiment, though.
StevieBee said:
sparta6 said:
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Sporting contests were created to escape from, and indeed transcend, politics and religion.
Ancient Greece understood the fundamentals.
I don't disagree with your sentiment, though.
If everyone is big enough to admit that F1 is no longer a sport, that would be fine. F1 is sitting on the fence and paying lip service to "sport" when they should just be honest.
It's a platform for big money car development.
WWE isn't a sport, but a decent business of entertainment.
sparta6 said:
StevieBee said:
sparta6 said:
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Sporting contests were created to escape from, and indeed transcend, politics and religion.
Ancient Greece understood the fundamentals.
I don't disagree with your sentiment, though.
If everyone is big enough to admit that F1 is no longer a sport, that would be fine. F1 is sitting on the fence and paying lip service to "sport" when they should just be honest.
It's a platform for big money car development.
WWE isn't a sport, but a decent business of entertainment.
Someone mentioned horse racing on another thread which is a good analogy. Horse racing was used to demonstrate the quality of certain breeders' horses so essentially a marketing exercise. But as horses became less of a 'tool' and more of a past-time, horse racing remained but for no reason other than the pleasure of participating and watching (and gambling).
Perhaps the same could happen to F1 - we see it revert to an endeavour that exists purely for the thrill of competition whilst FE tickles the corporate requirements of the manufacturers.
StevieBee said:
sparta6 said:
StevieBee said:
sparta6 said:
Mark-C said:
sparta6 said:
The Moose said:
How come it’s only for a handful of years?
As F1 cars are now so quiet it will simply merge into FEWe may not like it but it's coming regardless ...
Sporting contests were created to escape from, and indeed transcend, politics and religion.
Ancient Greece understood the fundamentals.
I don't disagree with your sentiment, though.
If everyone is big enough to admit that F1 is no longer a sport, that would be fine. F1 is sitting on the fence and paying lip service to "sport" when they should just be honest.
It's a platform for big money car development.
WWE isn't a sport, but a decent business of entertainment.
Someone mentioned horse racing on another thread which is a good analogy. Horse racing was used to demonstrate the quality of certain breeders' horses so essentially a marketing exercise. But as horses became less of a 'tool' and more of a past-time, horse racing remained but for no reason other than the pleasure of participating and watching (and gambling).
Perhaps the same could happen to F1 - we see it revert to an endeavour that exists purely for the thrill of competition whilst FE tickles the corporate requirements of the manufacturers.
100%
StevieBee said:
I've refined my thinking of late as to the future of F1. It will ultimately go full electric at some point in the future but rather than amalgamate F1 and FE, I think it could spawn something new - a series that still uses ICE but using bio fuels - a fuel that has as much of a future as electric. Indycar has been growing their own fuel for decades!
Someone mentioned horse racing on another thread which is a good analogy. Horse racing was used to demonstrate the quality of certain breeders' horses so essentially a marketing exercise. But as horses became less of a 'tool' and more of a past-time, horse racing remained but for no reason other than the pleasure of participating and watching (and gambling).
Perhaps the same could happen to F1 - we see it revert to an endeavour that exists purely for the thrill of competition whilst FE tickles the corporate requirements of the manufacturers.
Biofuel doesn't have as much of a future as electric though - it's still hopelessly inefficient. In the end, using any ICE means essentially driving around with what amounts to a relatively crude fuel burning power plant in the car - with improved cell technology the motor/battery combination will be able go further, faster and weight less. In the end electric will win out, it's just a better solution to the requirement for motive power.Someone mentioned horse racing on another thread which is a good analogy. Horse racing was used to demonstrate the quality of certain breeders' horses so essentially a marketing exercise. But as horses became less of a 'tool' and more of a past-time, horse racing remained but for no reason other than the pleasure of participating and watching (and gambling).
Perhaps the same could happen to F1 - we see it revert to an endeavour that exists purely for the thrill of competition whilst FE tickles the corporate requirements of the manufacturers.
However, I do agree that in the intermediate stages bio-fuel is the obvious choice for F1 and they're already seeking to make that happen.
I don't agree horse racing is a good analogy for F1. There will always be a pinnacle of motorsport, whatever it's called (possibly it won't be the F1 we know today) and that pinnacle will always be making use of what is perceived to be the technology of the day. The old cars running hill climb events etc, that's the equivalent of horse racing. I do believe ICE race cars will put on a show and fascinate people for decades to come - but at the sharp end of the sport in 15-20 years time, pretending an ICE car was in some way the best tool for the job would be laughable in any contemporary racing series.
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